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Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by throwawayboise on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:51PM (#30249259)
At some point, no amount of money is worth it.

I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a job that places such a demand on my time and attention that I don't have time for a life outside of it.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by dan-robertson on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:47PM (#30249993)
It’s easy and comforting to imagine that someone getting paid more than you must also suffer more than you – certainly well paid doctors and lawyers and investment bankers seem to suffer terrible working conditions – but it isn’t really true. A software developer earning an ordinary good salary (say $80k-$120k to pick some reference point) isn’t going to be working ‘harder’ than someone with a more manual job[1] earning much less pay or indeed your equivalent software developer in a poorer country, and unlike a skilled tradesman, the programmer is unlikely to reach 40 in a terrible physical condition with his muscles shot and some kind of chronic joint pain. And warren buffet is unlikely to be working much harder than the CEO of some smaller company.

Most of the reason those big companies can pay software developers so we’ll is that they are worth it, and they can be worth it because they have more leverage: if you do something that causes a small company to be 1% better, and if that same thing would make a small part of a massive company 0.5% better, the latter can be worth a lot more just because the denominator is so much bigger. It feels harder to explain why they must pay so much. The first order argument is that there is lots of demand for software developers and that pushes up the price, but these companies are active in markets where developers are paid less well (e.g. Europe) and they could adjust hiring to favour candidates who are good but less competitive (e.g. because they are bad at a particular kind of interview) so I don’t understand why market forces haven’t lead to things being more balanced.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by vanusa on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:18PM (#30250405)
It’s easy and comforting to imagine that someone getting paid more than you must also suffer more than you

However in the case of Amazon this isn't based on "imagining" but extremely widespread reports across multiple sources.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by dan-robertson on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @03:50AM (#30256199)
Well all the examples I gave were from America. It’s true that at some jobs higher pay comes with worse conditions (eg hazard pay or working a night shift) but generally for programming (and many other professional jobs) higher pay comes with better conditions.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by JCM9 on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:06PM (#30249454)
$350k is just the max base salary (cash). Comp packages have multiple components and then the actual total compensation including the value of shares awarded would typically be higher, veritably much much higher for anyone getting $350k base. For a lot of senior tech employees “cash salary” is a small minority of total comp.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by CyanLite2 on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:59PM (#30249359)
You work there 3 years and you'll earn a million bucks. Plenty of life to live after that and a lot of money to do whatever it is you want. Many people are willing to make that tradeoff, perhaps not you though.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by vanusa on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:06PM (#30249456)
Plenty of life to live after that and a lot of money to do whatever it is you want.

If your children hate you or you lose the love of your life -- or you ruin your health -- then what's the point of all that money and free time?

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by munk-a on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:34PM (#30249824)
Ruining your health is an aspect that I think gets far too little attention. If you're honestly working 16hr days your quality of life is going to absolutely tank and you'll be paying serious interest on the damage you do to your heart, back, eyes and wrists for decades to come.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by 9530jh9054ven on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:30PM (#30249768)
Doesn't that kind of depend on having kids or love? There's probably a fair number of people out there skilled enough to do the work that doesn't have those things to distract from having a demanding job.

Ultimately it's a decision that you'd have to make depending on what you care about. You could turn your question on it's head; what's the point of having children or a significant other if you are incapable or unwilling when you could be making money for the things you do care about in life?

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by vanusa on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:50PM (#30250045)
You could turn your question on it's head; what's the point of having children or a significant other if you are incapable or unwilling when you could be making money for the things you do care about in life?

That's a good point, actually.

Which I will bookmark as the perfect description of the kind of personality profile that is most suited to working at Amazon-- and perhaps the only personality type that can thrive there, actually.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by reedjosh on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:41PM (#30250759)
I'm there and have a great life outside of work and a young family. I've yet to see the crazy culture everyone rants about.

I prefer a bit tougher job that means I'll be financially free in 10 years. It also means my wife doesn't have to work and can really focus on raising our children.

I've worked some long days, but not 16hrs. Plus I really dig the projects I'm on.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by ant6n on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:16PM (#30251301)
> If your children hate you or you lose the love of your life -- or you ruin your health -- then what's the point of all that money and free time?

You can ruin all that on a 70K job.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by hackerfromthefu on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @03:58AM (#30256243)
Why run home behind a bus when you can run home behind a taxi?
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by vmception on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:04PM (#30249435)
and you get to say "ex-Amazon or ex-FAANG" on any of your future projects to a completely non-discerning audience that will drown out any nuanced discussion from cynics.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by delackner on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @02:10PM (#30262988)
Just reiterating what some others said. The decision in your career life does not have to be a zero sum balance of low pay vs high stress/hours.

There are several companies where the revenue they create per employee is so astronomical that reasonable work-life balance and high pay are on the table.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by omegaworks on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:57PM (#30249341)
Exactly. No amount of money can buy you time. You are committing to a significant quality of life deterioration during the period you are employed at Amazon.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by karmasimida on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:15PM (#30250350)
You can start imagining though, 350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle

Especially so if you are single income family.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by vanusa on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:29PM (#30250593)
Median household income in Santa Clara County is $140k.

How on earth can you say that $350k is "not that much"?

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by karmasimida on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:40PM (#30250755)
I mean the average software engineer salary in the area is like 220k-240k.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by vanusa on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:51PM (#30250919)
I meant for like, you know, regular people.

Also, I'd be curious to know where you get your numbers from - simply because numbers for total comp (across all companies) seems hard to come by. One can't go by what's posted on levels.fyi of course, because that's skewed heavily towards people who have ... something to brag about.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by ramesh31 on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:19PM (#30250428)
>350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle

Yeah it really still is. Living in the bay area as a single 20 something making that kind of money you are approaching 1% status. Rent is a little higher sure, but what really is the difference between $2k/month and $4k/month when you're bringing home $20k+/month? And everything else in California besides housing is the same as anywhere else really in terms of cost of living.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by karmasimida on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:26PM (#30250539)
For the record.

You don't bring 20k+ per months, more like 9k+ after tax/401k contribution. And stock grants are liquid assets, but they are not cash, and most people I know won't exercise them right away, so they are still numbers in certain DB table

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by kaesar14 on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @01:05AM (#30255401)
401k contributions are still savings, deduct that (at a max contribution rate that’s like 1.5k) and you’re at 10.5k a month. The bit about stock grants is meaningless, if it’s a public company that is straight cash.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by ericd on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:12PM (#30251237)
Eh for those liquidating them, most are turning most into equity in other companies/funds - ie a number in the same sort of DB table, albeit with a different ticker attached.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by cosmodisk on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:13PM (#30249569)
100%. I'm approaching the amounts that only a few years ago would have been in a fantasy land category, however there are issues with high stress levels, overtime and many others. I do understand many many people in my position would just pull through just because of money but eventually it wears out as a strong argument.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by vanusa on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:02PM (#30249401)
At some point, no amount of money is worth it.

That's the point these companies don't get, and never will get.

All of their mouthed pronouncements about "wellness" and "work-life balance" notwithstanding.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by ramesh31 on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:13PM (#30250336)
>At some point, no amount of money is worth it.

Speak for yourself, I guess.

I would strap myself into the torture machine from Clockwork Orange for 8 hours a day if you paid me $350k to do it.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by imwillofficial on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:14PM (#30251265)
Have you ever made $350k?

The magic wears off fast and it doesn’t go as far as you imagine.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by ericd on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:13PM (#30251254)
What if you’d been an engineer at one of these sorts of companies for a while and already banked a mill? Two? Five?