> It always seems like a bit of a cop out to me. "Life is empty and meaningless, so I'll just have kids, let that fill up all my time, and maybe they can figure it out." I suppose that could be the history of humanity in a nutshell.

I understand the sentiment here, and prior to having children of my own, I would have agreed with you. But having kids brings tremendous meaning to one's life in a way that is difficult to explain - it has to be experienced. What you see as an infinite recursion, i.e.:

have children and find meaning --> your children find meaning from their children --> etc., etc. etc.

Being part of the ongoing chain of humanity, there's something beautiful about that lack of an endgame, just being a part of something and then passing the torch.

Having children does not bring meaning in itself. Your interpretation of having children brings you meaning.

I am extremely happy that I do not have children and that I do not have to deal with children. I have so many meaningful relationships with adults and wonderful life experiences and every morning I look forward to continuing with the day. I do not desire children and I'm completely fine with not having them at all.

I've noticed that everyone with kids tends to do two things: one is that they get along with other people who've had kids and they use that to create instant bonds of mutual understanding. And the other is that they take opportunities to convince those without kids to get kids. While I don't take offense, I do feel that there is usually an implication in there that someone without kids is somehow less trustworthy or less of a 'good' type of person, or inferior even.

It's definitely a cop out. There are probably as many assholes with kids as there are without kids in this world.

Having kids and being a good parent can be really hard. Parents trying to convince others to have kids might be trying to validate their own choices. We do that all the time for trivial choices like iPhone vs Android, so it's expected that we'll do it even more for irreversible choices like having kids. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Oh I don’t - impressions of what others think aren’t worth the trouble of overthinking.

If anything it’s just interesting that this happens.

I have two kids and I’ll be the first to tell people who ask that it’s not for everyone. First, maybe with climate change none of us should. Second, you have to be ready to stick with things even when you don’t think you can, like literally do not see a way through. It will break you.

On the flip side you will learn more about what you are capable of and you will be responsible for this little magical person who will make the world and time freeze just for a moment when they give you a hug and a kiss.

Is it worth it? That’s the wrong question…

Haha there you go - that’s that opportunity that people with kids take that I was just talking about. ;)

But generally yes, everything you’re saying is 100% true and a valuable contribution to this type of conversation.

The thing I think about quite a bit is this: People with children will frequently bring up how much they’ve changed and matured after having kids. And I have seen this happen with many friends. But it’s also very difficult to really imagine the consequences of the lack of that decision. Because you don’t really have a clear view into that alternate timeline in which you don’t have the kids. What’s more we usually view that timeline as static - we don’t imagine ourselves continuing to change and evolve in it. “I was a irresponsible young adult right before kids so I would continue to be that irresponsible today if not for them.” But if you assume that just as much growth occurs in that other timeline, only in a different direction, then not having kids can be just as big and profound a decision as having them.

Having someone who is dependent on you definitely makes you important, whether that's kids or your dying grandmother or something else. But creating that dependency explicitly as a means to feel important is just weird.

"I have a hard time to see any relevance in a life without children anymore."

Consider the fact that Chinese slaves made everything you own, and are wearing. Isn't that worth caring about? Wouldn't it be "relevant" to try improve that situation?

In this person's mind, a person without kids who is trying to solve the problem of human slavery, is living an "irrelevant life". It goes to show you how stupid the average person is, including the average parent.

>Chinese slaves made everything you own

You should actually go visit some factories in China, their working lives aren’t so different from working in a factory in the west.

It definitely does give you a default answer to keep going. And I don't think thats a terrible thing.

I was lucky to have a great childhood. Becoming a parent is one route to giving someone else a great childhood. Lots of humans derive a feeling of meaning from giving good things to other humans, whatever form that might take. Parenthood isn't the only way to do this, of course.

Also, eventually one generation might figure it all out. We can only keep going and find out!

It's not a cop out it's just a way out.

If video games, side projects, promotions, rock climbing, travel, etc. work for you, then go for it.

But I think for most, those fade. Kids are an investment that pays dividends forever.

You say it like parents choose the easy explanation. But what if for some people the meaning of their life is to have kids? For sure parenting gives your life _a_ meaning. But I doubt people choose to have kids for that.

I think the choose of having kissy it’s more a mix of ambition, societal conventions and natural instinct.

I haven't had kids yet, but I think having them is the most important thing I can do with my life. I can't fix society's problems. I can't even be sure I helped a nonzero amount even if I exerted myself to exhaustion for my entire time on Earth. What I can do is raise someone who is exposed to my principles and ideals. I can carry my meme on so that they may exert themselves for a lifetime that yields an infentesimal result. It's the only way we'll ever make it.

Well said! Life should be what you want to do - many people don't have ambitions or interests, and I guess defaulting to the evolutionary standard of having kids is a valid response.

It’s how we were programmed biologically and evolutionally, that’s it.