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Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by FredPret on Saturday February 05, 2022 @12:47AM (#30218066)
Who the hell has the authority to issue “orders” to a civilian? What is this, medieval Europe?

To make it worse, he paid to be there. If they didn’t want him in the seat, they shouldn’t have sold him a ticket.

He already paid, already received the ticket, and already had his ass in the seat.

Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by midasuni on Saturday February 05, 2022 @03:16AM (#30218948)
Jurisdictions can issue evacuation orders and curfews. Police can in many cases remove you for trespassing.

The United incident was a total disaster for United, they were incompetent and doubled down on that incompetence because of policies driven by their bottom line. The “police” that removed the trespasser were no trained and were also incompetent.

None of that changes the fact that if the captain of the airline thinks it’s a safety problem he can remove the passenger.

Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by nightski on Saturday February 05, 2022 @01:30AM (#30218381)
At least in the U.S. anyone is allowed to order others off their own property...
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by ttybird2 on Saturday February 05, 2022 @02:05AM (#30218588)
This is not technically correct. I am pretty sure that you are not allowed to immediately order someone off your property if they have been living there for a while.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by sk5t on Saturday February 05, 2022 @02:04AM (#30218577)
Do contracts mean nothing to you?
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by midasuni on Saturday February 05, 2022 @03:07AM (#30218902)
The contract says they can order you off. The entire argument revolves around invalidating the contract due to other laws.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by manigandham on Saturday February 05, 2022 @01:03AM (#30218199)
Airport security and the police are explicitly granted with that authority and can issue those orders.

Why would you call this medieval?

Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by Bud on Saturday February 05, 2022 @01:29AM (#30218370)
You seem deeply confused. A lot of people have the right to issue orders to a civilian under various circumstances.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by hattori_hanzo on Saturday February 05, 2022 @03:02AM (#30218886)
I'm deeply confused aswell. Do you mind elaborating on who that is?
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by FredPret on Saturday February 05, 2022 @09:41AM (#30221466)
But not under these circumstances. Was that not clear? If you’re a model of clarity, I’d rather be confused.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by Bud on Monday February 07, 2022 @08:16PM (#30253821)
You're still wrong. Go check federal law on airline passengers. Don't worry, I'll wait.

And no, btw, pretending to be confused isn't convincing.

Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by dragonwriter on Saturday February 05, 2022 @01:39AM (#30218424)
> Who the hell has the authority to issue “orders” to a civilian?

The property owner of the property he is occupying against the owner’s wishes.

> What is this, medieval Europe?

Capitalism isn't the same thing as feudalism, though both give preeminence to property rights (in capitalism, the important ones are more likely to be marketable rather than fixed to predefined systems of inheritance.)

[dead]
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by Ansil849 on Saturday February 05, 2022 @01:52AM (#30218507)
> The terms of purchasing the ticket includes your agreement that you might get bumped.

'Bumping' is the colloquial term for 'involuntary denied boarding'. Bumping does not apply in this case, because the passenger in question was already boarded, and therefore could not be denied his seat, as he was not acting abusively.

But don't take my word for it, this is directly from the US Department of Transportation:

> Can airlines involuntarily bump me after I have boarded the flight?

> Generally, no. If you have met the following conditions, airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if you have already boarded the flight: > You have checked-in for your flight before the check-in deadline set by the airlines; and > A gate agent has accepted your paper boarding pass or electronically scanned your boarding pass and let you know that you may proceed to board. > However, airlines may deny boarding or remove you from a flight even after accepting your boarding pass and informing you that you may proceed to board if the denial or removal is due to a safety, security, or health risk, or due to a behavior that is considered obscene, disruptive, or otherwise unlawful.

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by kube-system on Saturday February 05, 2022 @01:54AM (#30218526)
My mistake, I forgot that detail. My other two points, however, are still valid, even if the airlines request broke regulations.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by Ansil849 on Saturday February 05, 2022 @02:08AM (#30218605)
> My other two points, however, are still valid.

No, if you read the DOT website I linked to, you'll see your second point is not valid either.

The DOT explicitly states airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if.... If you have already boarded the plan, or had your ticket scanned, and are not being unruly, airlines are literally not allowed to deplane you.

Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by kube-system on Saturday February 05, 2022 @02:52AM (#30218839)
Trespass law is not within DOTs regulatory purview. It is possible for a request from an airline to be legal under one set of laws but illegal under another. Airports are both under federal and state law. Which may conflict at times.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by cuban-frisbee on Saturday February 05, 2022 @03:42AM (#30219134)
How could trespassing laws possibly apply? It’s not the airlines property just their vehicle parked on the government’s property
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by amanaplanacanal on Saturday February 05, 2022 @07:19AM (#30220335)
By that logic a stranger could get into my car if it is parked in the street, since it is a private vehicle parked on the governments property. This seems counterintuitive.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by cuban-frisbee on Saturday February 05, 2022 @01:55PM (#30224476)
But the vehicle is not parked in a public space it's parked on private property that is owned by the government. If someone is in a vehicle on someones property then it's the property owner not the vehicle owner were trespassing laws apply to.

The Airline is as much a guest in an airport as the passenger is.

Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by kube-system on Saturday February 05, 2022 @04:23PM (#30226228)
This is not true. In the US, trespass in a vehicle is often criminalized regardless of where that vehicle sits.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by kube-system on Saturday February 05, 2022 @11:58AM (#30223035)
Vehicles are typically included as property under most trespass laws
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by midasuni on Saturday February 05, 2022 @03:20AM (#30218976)
airlines may remove you from a flight if the removal is due to a behavior that is considered disruptive
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by greenbcj on Saturday February 05, 2022 @08:22AM (#30220725)
…or if the weather changes and they need to reduce weight. On a CRJ this is quite common (which was the type of plane this incident occurred).
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by kortilla on Saturday February 05, 2022 @01:38AM (#30218418)
He paid for a seat reservation, not the plane. You have no right to disobey orders in the same way you don’t have a right to fly the plane. There is no ambiguity here.
Re:Delta CEO wants U.S. to put unruly passengers on 'no-fly'... by ratww on Saturday February 05, 2022 @08:48AM (#30220933)
> He paid for a seat reservation, not the plane.

He paid for the flight, was checked in, allowed into the plane and didn't provide any reason himself for being thrown out. The people who escalated the situation were the airline staff and airport staff. Huge difference.