The stated "requirement" was so that they could know who was travelling, but for international travel, that's covered by your passport, and for local travel, by your local ID (driver license etc). Having your "name" on your ticket is just bullshit.

As for the "security sensitive" it's actually "security theatre" that has been in place since 9/11.

Excusing the behavior of the airline is ridiculous. They didn't need to drag this person off the plane, they needed to offer enough to the passengers until enough had accepted their offer so that they could deadhead their staff. That is what is supposed to happen when they need to offload passengers.

Don't excuse their behavior.

I'm not talking about how effective the security practices are; only that they exist and result in much faster and more forceful action.

I didn't excuse their behavior; I agree that it was poorly chosen and should be criticized.

What I'm explaining is that they can lawfully (at that time ) cancel a ticket and remove a passenger at their will; regardless of how they were chosen or whether it was a good idea. What happened after is a series of escalations that is standard procedure with countless other examples where force was proportional and effective without ending in a scandal.

The point is that you don't see beating and dragging a man as 'extreme', so I am postulating other extremes like indefinite incarceration or execution which it would then likewise stand to reason are warranted because what if this man, a known troublemaker now, ever tries to get on a plane again? Incarceration and execution would preempt that problem.

If he left voluntarily then there would be no force. If he started attacking others then there would be more force and more injuries. The response was proportionate and even lax considering he was allowed to run back on to the aircraft.

How would you remove him? What is your actual issue here?

This isn't just my hearsay. The Chicago City Inspector's Office ruled that the action violated the City's personnel rules, 2 of the officers were discharged, the other 2 disciplined.

The airline staff shouldn't have removed him. They should have given up and made increasing large offers of travel vouchers until someone accepted, or they should have found an alternative way to get their staff to Louisville.

At no point should the airline ever have even considered forcibly removing someone so that their staff could fly instead. No matter what happened, the paying customer should have been the priority.

Defending the actions of the airline makes me think you should never run a business.

It's no different than you deciding that you no longer want a guest in your house (for whatever reason) and calling the police when they refuse to leave.

"but once decided to remove a passenger than that passenger needs to comply or be removed"

I do not get this type of argument at all. "once decided to take the victim's money then the victim needs to either comply or have the money physically removed from their possession" uses the same logic.

Anyway, you have made 25 flamewar comments in this thread. Posters that do that are usually banned so I would advice you to stop. (just a friendly advice)

> "What is an authority for someone is a criminal for another (see certain regimes)"

What does this have to do with air travel? This person isn't fighting tyranny, they're being asked to leave a plane. The authority is the same for everyone that participates in that state, airport and aircraft.

> "the airline is not an authority under the law"

No, but it can call authorities just like you can call the police when required. Also airports and aircraft do operate under different rules for security.

> "you have made 25 flamewar comments in this thread"

My comments are not "flamewar" because you disagree with them. I've always posted civilly in the face of very harsh and rude replies and will continue the discussion as long as I want. I advise you leave the moderation to the admins here.

Nope, not "at any time" or for "any reason". Air companies are subject to several regulations, and another person posted it here: after boarding there are pretty specific reasons for why you can expel someone, and "because I say so" is not one. Not to mention that planes fly so you obviously can't "surprise deny" service at "any time".

At hotels you also can't throw people out on the street in the middle of the night, unless they did something wrong. Which is clearly not the case.

You also cannot throw out tenants without reason and without proper proceedings, for example.

>Generally, no. If you have met the following conditions, airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if you have already boarded the flight: You have checked-in for your flight before the check-in deadline set by the airlines; and A gate agent has accepted your paper boarding pass or electronically scanned your boarding pass and let you know that you may proceed to board

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

> "On January 13, 2021, the United States Department of Transportation amended its rules, forbidding involuntarily bumping from an overbooked flight after boarding starting on April 21."

Is your position that it would not have been possible to remove him (even without his cooperation) without injuring him to this extent?

The security staff is charged with removing someone from an aircraft, without knowing their intentions, who's already acting strange by refusing to leave in the first place, and acting in limited space with lots of other people around. They could've done a better job, but it also could've been much worse.

They needed the seats to move their staff operationally. To do that, they needed some passengers to volunteer to not fly. To do so, they needed to offer incentives, not demands.

The airline's problem is that they didn't want to pay enough. So they used force, not only that, they used public security (police) to enforce a private contractual matter (not providing travel, even though the passenger was in complete contractual compliance).

The security staff were briefed, and if not, should have waited until they were. He wasn't "acting strange", he was upset at not travelling as he had paid for, and wasn't been offered a reasonable alternative.

Excusing this behavior is allowing it to continue.

I would also suggest considering that e.g. bus drivers face noncompliant passengers (non-paying, even!) far more frequently, and they have pretty good peaceful means of dealing with them.

Clearly it was adjudicated that it was excessive in this United instance by people qualified and knowledgeable of all the factors but that doesn't override that fundamental point that when force is used then injuries are possible and probable.

Sure it does. Because force isn't binary, which circles us back directly to where I made this point above. Your logic only makes sense if you treat "force" as binary.

I already answered your question about the degree of force in that I don't know, and that "people qualified and knowledgeable of all the factors" have already decided for this particular instance that it was excessive.

Now you're just using ad hominem to make your point.

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

> "On January 13, 2021, the United States Department of Transportation amended its rules, forbidding involuntarily bumping from an overbooked flight after boarding starting on April 21."

>the issue is resolved

love how the passive voice always pops up whenever someone tries to justify obvious bullshit

Maybe reconsider when you have to start the post this way.

What is this strange refusal to accept consequences? You are responsible for your actions.

It's called proportionate response. Leave voluntarily without issue, or create more havoc and a bigger force will be applied. The limiting principle is your own resistance to authority.

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

Last I checked, TSA was nearly universally despised, airlines in particular are dubiously popular, and aside from the ATF and FCC, I see more griping about the tyrannical tendencies of the FAA by those subject to it's capriciousness, no matter how well justified one may think it to be.

Point being, I'd refrain from making assimptions on the "Public's" behalf, when it's more "a bunch of bureaucrats" dictating things.

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

Are they responsible for their actions that caused an innocent person to suffer both the physical and other injuries for something that he was not responsible?

Stop excusing this nonsense. The force applied was unnecessary, excessive, and unjustified.

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

> "On January 13, 2021, the United States Department of Transportation amended its rules, forbidding involuntarily bumping from an overbooked flight after boarding starting on April 21."