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A comment on Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment systems in Netherlands.

Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by Isinlor on Friday February 04, 2022 @05:49AM (#30205192)
EU is specifically drafting legislation for gatekeepers in Digital Markets Law.

TL;DR Apple and Google will have to allow to install third-party app stores trough their stores.

This type of private taxes will become impossible to enforce.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?qid=16081168...

Gatekeepers like Apple will have specific obligation according to Article 5:

(b) allow business users to offer the same products or services to end users through third party online intermediation services at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper;

(c) allow business users to promote offers to end users acquired via the core platform service, and to conclude contracts with these end users regardless of whether for that purpose they use the core platform services of the gatekeeper or not, and allow end users to access and use, through the core platform services of the gatekeeper, content, subscriptions, features or other items by using the software application of a business user, where these items have been acquired by the end users from the relevant business user without using the core platform services of the gatekeeper;

And Article 6:

(c) allow the installation and effective use of third party software applications or software application stores using, or interoperating with, operating systems of that gatekeeper and allow these software applications or software application stores to be accessed by means other than the core platform services of that gatekeeper. The gatekeeper shall not be prevented from taking proportionate measures to ensure that third party software applications or software application stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system provided by the gatekeeper;

(k) apply fair and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application store designated pursuant to Article 3 of this Regulation.

Following articles, like:

- article 7: Compliance with obligations for gatekeepers

- article 10: Updating obligations for gatekeepers and

- article 11: Anti-circumvention

Give the EU Commission quite a lot of maneuvering power to ensure effective implementation.

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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by MilaM on Friday February 04, 2022 @05:58AM (#30205266)
A more general explanation of the new law can be found here:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/euro...

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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by schmorptron on Friday February 04, 2022 @01:03PM (#30210291)
Uuuh, things are gonna get interesting! Putting on my tinfoil hat here, if this goes through I forsee that we'll see a lot of fearmongering about malware in the near future, and even some well publicized cases of malware infecting people who go outside of the established app stores.
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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by MikeDelta on Friday February 04, 2022 @01:20PM (#30210782)
Indeed, that is the argument Apple is making, and at the same time the app store itself seems riddled with scammers.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27413934

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14526156

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26015866

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25986515

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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by komuher on Friday February 04, 2022 @01:40PM (#30211068)
App store is full of scam right now so wouldnt be a big change xD
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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by tomjen3 on Friday February 04, 2022 @12:40PM (#30209961)
This should be changed so the end user gets to decide what payment service to use. I don't want to download and app and have to insert my credit card ever and I want to cancel subscriptions in one place the way I can now.

It should not be up to the developer to choose how I pay them, only the amount.

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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by schmorptron on Friday February 04, 2022 @01:04PM (#30210304)
Good point! If people are happy to pay 13€ instead of 10€ for the convenience of using the platform owner's payment system, that should always be an option.
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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by disiplus on Friday February 04, 2022 @01:23PM (#30210813)
the app maker should have the complete freedom what payment options he offers. if i want you to pay me in stones that is my freedom, the same you are free to not use my app and find another app that offers methods that you like.
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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by john_minsk on Friday February 04, 2022 @02:11PM (#30211464)
Great point. Also true: I already have some level of trust with Apple(I bought their device), not you. So Apple should return more relevant results for me on AppStore or even allow me to filter out those apps, that doesn’t support preferred option of payment. Will you agree with such setting?
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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by ThatPlayer on Friday February 04, 2022 @04:24PM (#30213473)
I don't mind it being a filter, but I think them sorting them like that by default could be an issue. Would you equivalate it to developers paying for higher search ranking? Apple favoring their own services over others definitely could be an anti-trust issue.
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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by stale2002 on Friday February 04, 2022 @02:34PM (#30211766)
Sure. A reasonable compromise would be that the app developer puts Apple's payment system in the app, for you to use, but all transparently tells you that you have to pay the 30% Apple fee yourself.

So, you'd be shown 2 options. Option 1 would be their payment processor, and option 2 would be Apple's. And you could choose to pay an extra 30% to use Apple's.

Problem solved right? Everyone gets what they want, and pays the appropriate fee.

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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by lifty on Friday February 04, 2022 @03:08PM (#30212301)
Card details can be stored in the phone and the OS can offer a payments API through which any payment provider can integrate. Similarly to how the File Provider API works.
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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by srcreigh on Friday February 04, 2022 @02:33PM (#30211757)
What makes a business a gatekeeper? Would this require for eg discord to allow 3rd party clients?
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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by Isinlor on Friday February 04, 2022 @07:15PM (#30215473)
Article 3, Designation of gatekeepers

Paragraph 1, a provider of core platform services shall be designated as gatekeeper if:

(a) it has a significant impact on the internal market;

(b) it operates a core platform service which serves as an important gateway for business users to reach end users; and

(c) it enjoys an entrenched and durable position in its operations or it is foreseeable that it will enjoy such a position in the near future.

Paragraph 2, a provider of core platform services shall be presumed to satisfy:

(a) the requirement in paragraph 1 point (a) where the undertaking to which it belongs achieves an annual EEA turnover equal to or above EUR 6.5 billion in the last three financial years, or where the average market capitalisation or the equivalent fair market value of the undertaking to which it belongs amounted to at least EUR 65 billion in the last financial year, and it provides a core platform service in at least three Member States;

(b) the requirement in paragraph 1 point (b) where it provides a core platform service that has more than 45 million monthly active end users established or located in the Union and more than 10 000 yearly active business users established in the Union in the last financial year;

for the purpose of the first subparagraph, monthly active end users shall refer to the average number of monthly active end users throughout the largest part of the last financial year;

(c) the requirement in paragraph 1 point (c) where the thresholds in point (b) were met in each of the last three financial years.

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Re:Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment ... by 542458 on Friday February 04, 2022 @06:51PM (#30215228)
Or Nintendo/Playstation/xbox? Hmm, what about smart TVs?
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