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Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by rr808 on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @11:23PM (#30188644)
This is why multi day settlement is a feature not a bug. For big money it really does not need to be instantaneous.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by Barrin92 on Thursday February 03, 2022 @01:01AM (#30189212)
At this point I'm convinced Satoshi Nakamoto was actually a public administration professor trying to teach kids why financial institutions have the rules in place that they do

given enough time the entire crypto space will have reinvented every regulation they tried to get rid of and understood why they existed in the first place

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by ckastner on Thursday February 03, 2022 @04:23AM (#30190437)
> given enough time the entire crypto space will have reinvented every regulation they tried to get rid of and understood why they existed in the first place

And the hilarious thing is that they see the absence of this regulation as a feature and don't even recognize just to what extent they are reinventing the wheel.

My favorite example is kleros.io, a "decentralized arbitration service". There's an app "Kleros Court". Can't wait for the "Kleros Supreme Court" version, for appeal processes and such.

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by unfocussed_mike on Thursday February 03, 2022 @07:02AM (#30191380)
> given enough time the entire crypto space will have reinvented every regulation they tried to get rid of and understood why they existed in the first place

Right, but they have to get through the robber baron and feudalism phases first.

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by arrow7000 on Thursday February 03, 2022 @03:10AM (#30189944)
Chesterton's fence writ large
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by ptha on Thursday February 03, 2022 @05:49AM (#30190901)
I wasn't aware of the name of this. But often during code review have asked why some code is being removed, and asked the developer why that code was there in the first place.

Some googling found this article on the origin of the phrase "Chesterton's fence".

https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by rafale on Thursday February 03, 2022 @07:24AM (#30191559)
Yeah but the regulations would be opt-in, for people who want a safe avenue. Anyone else will still be able to interact with the underlying permissionless blockchain network.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by oblio on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:00AM (#30191846)
Have you heard of social engineering?

"Hey, grandma, run this command and press enter and I'll send you the Fountain of Youth™ creme tomorrow."

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by rafale on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:38AM (#30192201)
That works with the current banking system as well. That's what made the Nigerian scams so successful.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by oblio on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:01PM (#30197038)
Yup, but the current system is not a decentralized, immutable database.

At least you kind-of-sort-of have a chance at reverting a transaction.

Heck, my bank completely blocks my transactions over a certain limit (I need to ask for temporary limit increases through a separate process) and frequently delays transactions larger than another limit and they call me to verify that I want to do them.

Sure, blockchains could do the same, through intermediaries, but then... they've reinvented banks.

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by JaimeThompson on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:19AM (#30192020)
But this time they get to be the ones who make money off the regulations. Modern crypto is about becoming the new banks, not getting rid of the concept of banks and such.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by alex_suzuki on Thursday February 03, 2022 @04:41AM (#30190549)
> given enough time the entire crypto space will have reinvented every regulation they tried to get rid of and understood why they existed in the first place

Just like modern-day web development!

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by 101011 on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @11:41PM (#30188774)
Which is funny because you always hear how fast crypto transactions are. What everybody seems to leave out is that fully settling on the blockchain is slow and costly.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by jorams on Thursday February 03, 2022 @07:09AM (#30191429)
> you always hear how fast crypto transactions are

Where do you hear that? One of the big criticisms of the biggest cryptocurrencies as currencies is that transactions are glacially slow for most practical uses (small transactions). Improving on that seems to be the main selling point of Solana.

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by X6S1x6Okd1st on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:11AM (#30188951)
> What everybody seems to leave out is that fully settling on the blockchain is slow and costly.

What do you mean?

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by Closi on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:05AM (#30189576)
I assume they mean that the major cryptocurrencies have fees to clear transactions, and the more you pay the faster they clear.

At the moment the transfer fee for Bitcoin/Eth is about $1.80/$4, so if you are buying a $5 coffee it’s not really cost effective to do that on chain.

The main issue that drives up cost is that Bitcoin has a scalability problem for transactions, particularly as the market cap/difficulty has gone up.

This is why the lightning network was introduced - although that comes with its own drawbacks compared to “pure” crypto.

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by nkrisc on Thursday February 03, 2022 @06:58AM (#30191356)
So if transferring cryptocurrency isn’t free, then how is it ever going to replace cash, theoretically? Right now I can buy a coffee for cash and the exchange of currency is free if I hand over the bills right then and there. I guess the alternative would be to actually transact on the exchange instead of the blockchain? But then we’re just back to centralized banking?

What’s the ideal scenario here? Transactions on chain eventually become free and then we truly have a useful distributed currency?

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by kasey_junk on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:37AM (#30192183)
The exchange of cash in your coffee example is definitely not free. Vendors spend a lot of money in cash management. Compliance costs, loss prevention, storage & movement etc. They price that in to the $5.

But frankly that’s besides the point. There are very few physical transactions in the “cash” world. Crypto can become very successful and never touch those transactions if it can work to standardize & disintermediate the electronic movement of money it could be a massive change.

I don’t know if that will happen and it’s not a goal of the crypto diehards I’ve met, but that’s a path to success that allows for fees along the way.

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by nkrisc on Thursday February 03, 2022 @10:32AM (#30193674)
> The exchange of cash in your coffee example is definitely not free. Vendors spend a lot of money in cash management. Compliance costs, loss prevention, storage & movement etc. They price that in to the $5.

Fair point. But there are still many more informal cash transactions that don't have that issue, but maybe that's not what cryptocurrency will solve. That's fair.

> But frankly that’s besides the point. There are very few physical transactions in the “cash” world. Crypto can become very successful and never touch those transactions if it can work to standardize & disintermediate the electronic movement of money it could be a massive change.

Definitely agree traditional electronic money transfer today has many issues. But I don't yet understand why cryptocurrency is the necessary solution. Sure it's a solution, but surely it's possible to fix the issues without cryptocurrency.

I think I understand the core principle and appeal of crytpocurrency as a decentralized currency, underground currency among those wishing to avoid traditional financial institutions. But everywhere I look I see cryptocurrency turning into traditional banking and I don't really understand the overall benefit. It seems the few benefits it does have over traditional banking (speed, ease of transfer, univeral currency) are outweighed by the drawbacks (power hungry, surprisingly insecure, easy to simply lose everything you have with no recourse).

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by mdoms on Thursday February 03, 2022 @01:18AM (#30189304)
Blockchain settlement is far too slow for small payments and far too fast for very large payments.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by Laforet on Thursday February 03, 2022 @03:03AM (#30189902)
As long as all transfers are final it has achieved the intended goal - no chance getting your money back at all!
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by SXX on Thursday February 03, 2022 @04:24AM (#30190450)
Unless you're omniscient owner of said chain who just been robbed. Then decentrzlization wont stop you from reverting said event.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by oefrha on Thursday February 03, 2022 @06:06AM (#30191010)
For sufficiently large transfers, there’s the good old “I’ll track you down and break your kneecaps”. Which often results in most, but not all, of the funds returned.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by SkyMarshal on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:53AM (#30189171)
> fully settling on the blockchain is slow and costly.

That depends on which blockchain you're fully settling on. There's more than one, Ethereum != "the blockchain".

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by oblio on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:02AM (#30191867)
How can they ever solve the fundamental problem of slow worldwide, globalized, decentralized consensus?

Have I missed some Turing Award discoveries while I was away?

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by basicallybones on Thursday February 03, 2022 @06:31PM (#30200573)
Several newer blockchains have made significant progress on transaction speed and throughput. Solana probably is the most notable example, but there are others. https://medium.com/solana-labs/how-solanas-proof-of-history-....
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by SkyMarshal on Thursday February 03, 2022 @10:29PM (#30202486)
> the fundamental problem of slow worldwide, globalized, decentralized consensus?

That's not necessarily a problem. Slow is ok if it's highly secure, reliable, and inexpensive relative to the amounts being moved or compared to other alternatives.

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by TimJRobinson on Thursday February 03, 2022 @09:55PM (#30202229)
> Have I missed some Turing Award discoveries while I was away?

Yes. ZK Rollups - https://polynya.medium.com/conjecture-how-far-can-rollups-da...

If you don't understand this post he has many more explaining the technologies behind it.

Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by yvdriess on Thursday February 03, 2022 @03:43AM (#30190161)
Fundamentally, the more popular the chain, the more expensive transactions are going to be.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by spopejoy on Friday February 04, 2022 @09:14PM (#30216367)
Not if the chain can scale -- ie not "fast finality" but being able to throw more resources at the problem as adoption increases (unlike Bitcoin, Ethereum and most single-chain POS systems however). Gas' true function is to stop griefing, the fact that it sends tx costs through the roof is because immature tech.
Re:In second largest DeFi hack, Blockchain Bridge loses $320... by SEJeff on Thursday February 03, 2022 @01:52AM (#30189509)
Fast and cheap on solana, slow and expensive on ethereum. Not all blockchains are directly comparable.