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Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by ethbr0 on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:17PM (#30185611)
Apple has always understood that true power is architecting yourself the ability to substantially harm competitors... without your users noticing.
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by omot on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:21PM (#30185677)
Invisible hand? Yeah maybe when you're early-stage Capitalism, in late-stage it's all about the invisible knife.
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by WalterBright on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:26PM (#30185759)
This is ironic considering that Apple displaced the former unstoppable phone monopoly.

Never mind that Walmart displaced the former unstoppable Sears monopoly, and Amazon did the same to Walmart.

IBM which people predicted was unstoppable, was going to rule the world. IBM's descent into irrelevance (I B What?) has been profound.

The only interesting thing is people still insist that this time it's gonna be different.

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by skinnymuch on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:52PM (#30186113)
It’s not helpful to say it’s inevitable if no timeline is given. If it won’t happen for 30 years, there is little point in talking about it right now. Though looking at history, when one of these tech giants do fall, a lot of people who were saying it would happen will act like prophets.

Especially funny because the downfall of Facebook has been predicted for a decade now. Since Friendster and MySpace each did not last that long.

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by WalterBright on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:16PM (#30187018)
Who has been proven wrong are all the pundits who proclaimed their monopolies were unstoppable.

Other giant companies have fallen as well. RCA, Xerox, GE, Kodak, on and on.

The reasons are well known. They become bureaucratic, wasteful and ossified, and become unable to adapt to a changing marketplace.

I've seen this play out again and again and again in my lifetime.

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by skinnymuch on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:59PM (#30187438)
Which sort of pundits? You said "pundits...their monopolies". Are you referring to people with a vested interest in the companies/monopolies? If so, that makes sense. They have no reason not to say that, whether they believe it or not.

Yes you're right. However on HN and similar tech/geek areas, the common theme regarding FB for a decade now has been direct or indirect implying of its coming demise. Which was what I was saying in my comment. Those people are not correct. It is being said in this thread and other recent threads too. If FB is still a $5-600B+ company in 2025, then these recent comments are also not correct.

Which is to say, it's hard to imagine FB dropping lower than the ~11th biggest US company and ~15th biggest worldwide[0] company at a $600B market cap in 2025. A valuation they did not cross until May 2020.

[0] Right now they are 8th in the US and world. Top 5 for earnings. Usually 5th-6th.

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by WalterBright on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:02AM (#30189559)
I've been online on tech groups for 40 years. It's always the same thing - the current crop of tech companies are unstoppable monopolies.
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by skinnymuch on Thursday February 03, 2022 @04:54PM (#30199507)
HN, Reddit, Twitter, Tumblr, and similar places online have been talking about the downfall of most of the tech giants and a plethora of sizable medium sized tech companies: Netflix, Paypal, Adobe, Salesforce, Oracle, Atlassian. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch. Besides Atlassian, the rest are all $150-300B companies right now. That's been the same thing for ~15 years now. That's how long I can attest to that behavior for.
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by paulryanrogers on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:33PM (#30185851)
What phone monopoly did Apple disrupt? Nokia? Symbian? Java mobile? Palm? Blackberry?
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by acdha on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:46PM (#30186031)
The phone carriers. They charged a fortune for data, restricted useful features on your phone (I remember one model which wouldn't play non-DRMed music because they wanted to boost their revenue), and things like mobile apps were held back by the way the carriers would look at your finances and decide how much to charge just for the privilege of being listed. When Qualcomm was getting started with BREW we looked into it for a few customers but even a modest business would get something like the _MINIMUM_ $50k listing fee for each carrier, adjusted up based on your perceived ability to pay, and they wanted more than 30% of the app pricing, too.
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by lokalfarm on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:59PM (#30186214)
How did Apple change any of this? (Genuine question - I am not well versed in cellular network technologies or their history, but I would love to read about how Apple led to improvements in the US infrastructure.)
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by acdha on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:10PM (#30186966)
It wasn't on the network side but rather the business side, where Apple had an unexpected amount of leverage due to its popularity: the iPod was incredibly popular — not just selling well but being a prestige item with an outsized cultural impact — and AT&T was eager enough to get the iPhone that they were willing to give up a significant amount of control over the device and its data plans.

Previously, the U.S. carriers were basically king-makers selecting which devices were available for sale and what features were enabled on them — to the point where I knew a couple of people who imported phones from Europe to get something which either wasn't available from a U.S. carrier or was restricted to one they didn't wish to be a customer of for some reason (e.g. poor coverage), and it wasn't uncommon to hear about people reflashing phone firmware to remove things like the carrier's wallpaper or preinstalled apps which the user was prevented from deleting. I refreshed a phone simply to change the audio codec settings because Cingular had restricted it to the lowest-bitrate which was painfully garbled.

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by mdorazio on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:07PM (#30186943)
There's a decent (though high level) explanation here: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/07/04/how-ipho...

It's actually kind of hard to articulate how bad things were in the early-mid 2000s with respect to carriers all trying to push their own garbage and monetize absolutely everything possible.

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by lokalfarm on Thursday February 03, 2022 @09:29AM (#30192825)
Thank you for linking the article. I purchased my first cellphone in 2004 so I experienced the era, but I've never used AT&T or an iPhone, so this is all news to me. I also was a late adopter of 'smartphones' and didn't purchase one until 2013 so take my experiences with a grain of salt. (I also visited Japan in '04 and remember being blown away by their phone technology - "large" color screens!)
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by paulryanrogers on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @07:58PM (#30186875)
Balckberry, Treo, AIM, XMPP, and Windows Mobile blazed the trails. Apple's role in ramping up data usage likely helped, though I suspect much of that change would have happened eventually regardless.
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by acdha on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:34PM (#30187190)
> Balckberry, Treo, AIM, XMPP, and Windows Mobile

2 of those aren't phones, did you mean something else?

On the other three, that's kind of like saying that the IBM Selectric blazed the trail for the PC — not wrong, but minimizing how much room there was still to go. If you used a Blackberry, it was good at message, tolerable for email, and bad at everything else. The Treos had some nice ideas but were agonizing slow, PalmOS was unstable, the software selection was limited, and the UI was … uninspired. Windows Mobile was at least stable but held back by mediocre hardware, and it had the lowest-common denominator problem that developers had to deal with the same OS running on a wide range of hardware and thus apps weren't usually tailored to work with the hardware.

The major trailblazing things added by the iPhone were the first touchscreen UI which was often better than a desktop UI — the Palm-style touchscreens with a stylus were much clumsier – and a desktop-grade web browser. Yes, other devices had mobile browsers earlier but they had significant compatibility issues and the UIs were uniformly clumsy — I briefly had a work Blackberry which was one of the last non-Android devices they made and despite coming out later, it was worse that an iPhone 1 in every way except messaging, and that's only if you excluded the App Store because that wasn't in the first release.

One of the big things which people underestimated was how much bigger the iPhone screen felt: when you were used to having something that size which was half controls, the iPhone had significantly more usable space (at higher quality than the displays common on many phones at the time, too) and the touchscreen keyboard could adapt to the context so it was much easier to use than the various systems like A9 which some phone manufacturers had invented. One nice side-effect of this is that it made localization better since the manufacturer didn't need to ship different hardware for different languages and multilingual users could just switch.

The final big thing was that breaking the carrier roadblock wasn't just about cheaper data. It also meant that the carriers didn't disable features based on marketing plans or try to force you to use some terrible app or services they got a kickback on (iOS 1 didn't support other apps but the bundled ones were quite good compared to the field and the App Store shipped shortly afterwards, which finally unleashed the mobile development industry which had been held back by the carriers).

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by paulryanrogers on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @09:03PM (#30187476)
I mentioned AIM and XMPP because they put pressure on SMS pricing, and increased demand for mobile data.
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by WalterBright on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:36PM (#30185903)
AT&T
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by ethbr0 on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:45PM (#30186018)
With the help of the FCC (1968 Carterphone) and US Justice (1974 US v ATT), no?

If Apple (and IBM) had been banned from communicating through long distance lines, except with ATT's permission, then it's hard to see how Western Electric (aka ATT) wouldn't have taxed all the nascent PC companies and retained enough profits to remain larger.

Edit: And on the later, iPhone side, that was the luck of power dynamics (single strong device manufacturer, bargaining against multiple competing cellular providers) coupled with phone company executive shortsightedness. If the cell phone industry has been less diverse (e.g. original ATT above), nobody would have felt the need to grant Apple any concessions.

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by lokalfarm on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:52PM (#30186117)
Do you have more information about how Apple disrupted Ma Bell? It is also worth noting that the iPhone was originally released as an AT&T exclusive...
Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by ksec on Thursday February 03, 2022 @01:58AM (#30189540)
>It is also worth noting that the iPhone was originally released as an AT&T exclusive

The deal was done with Cingular ( Later acquired and merged with AT&T ). Neither AT&T and Verizon wants to deal with Apple at the time.

Re:Meta shares drop 20% on Q4 earnings miss, weak outlook by spankalee on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:31PM (#30185825)
Which phone monopoly?