News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:05AM (#30084940)
>It's fascinating how most of hackernews is arguing against making usable products for 70% of the internet users.

Don't know who you're referring to but I wasn't arguing against making usable products. I'm not even a web developer. I merely stated the facts grounded in the real world. Most of the web is dogshit slow. What is more likely to happen from the two: 1) Web-devs starting to optimize their code to run well on old hardware or 2) People upgrade to HW that can run the current web a little bit better.

> used in africa, india, china and most of the non developed world. Do you think these devices are in any means powerful?

I find it funny the moments the HN users try to shoe-horn the poverty of the third world into various arguments, as if that's somehow a consideration for most people in rich countries on how they conduct their lives. Spoiler alert, most people only care about what happens in their surrounding, and in their personal bubble, and that's it, and most app-devs and web-devs care about the userbase they can monetize the most, which is why some app devs, especially in the US, never port their apps to Android as well and are fine with only with the more affluent iOS majority userbase. So bringing up the third world poverty and inclusiveness in such contexts feels deeply ironic to me.

Yeah, I'd like that too, that web-devs and app devs would not discriminate between iOS and Android and all websites would run great on older machines, but that's not the truth. The truth is that most websites developed in the west are not optimized property therefore heavily favor those with modern machines and some apps are even Apple exclusive to the detriment of those left out.

I've seen Facebook offer Lite version of their mobile client and messaging apps but that's only due to their huge userbase in the developing world, which like ou said, owns mostly low-end devices.

Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by hammyhavoc on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:15AM (#30085019)
I can't believe people are missing the obvious here.

Why are websites now less and less optimized? Because people use apps and APIs. Ergo, they're just fetching the data set.

CloudFlare Pages and GitHub Pages are bringing in a new era of fast, static websites. It isn't all doom and gloom. Furthermore, plenty of people are now using static site generator plugins with CMS like WordPress so that there's no database access required for each page load, which is really what slows things down.

Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by amatecha on Thursday January 27, 2022 @02:14AM (#30097248)
Yeah, this is why I turn more and more to alternative front-ends like Invidious for YouTube, scribe.rip for Medium, teddit for Reddit, and so on. On that note, I'm actually starting to feel like online services should be required to allow (or be forbidden from explicitly blocking) alternative front-ends. I should be allowed to interface with APIs with whatever client I want, and I am beginning to think that should be a right. Currently people using software and online services are basically completely at the mercy of software vendors who have basically zero motivation to respect the user. I'm not really willing to subject myself to very much BS on the web anymore and without these alternative front-ends I'd just completely opt out of the respective services.

Oh FWIW my personal site is static files built with Hugo SSG, and a minimum of JS. I don't think I will ever use a server-side technology for my personal site again. I do think a growing number of users are "seeing the light" in this regard.

Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by wusspuss on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:43AM (#30085976)
>CloudFlare Pages and GitHub Pages are bringing in a new era of fast, static websites.

Static site hosting with a brand name smashed onto it is a new era? GitHub itself btw is broken on palemoon for one thing. Not here to defend palemoon but it does show one thing: GitHub's frontend is over-engineered.

Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by hammyhavoc on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:01AM (#30086273)
If you think this is simply "hosting" then you're out of touch with why it's interesting. Instead of being served from a central server ala a VPS or colocated box, or even a central server augmented with a CDN, it is instead served from a ton of geographically-local servers. Oh yeah, and it starts at free, with unlimited bandwidth. This is without getting into Workers et al.

Not a GitHub Pages user, also not a Palemoon user, so couldn't say, but Palemoon is niche. There's not even an official macOS version.

Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by wusspuss on Thursday January 27, 2022 @12:10AM (#30096467)
>it is instead served from a ton of geographically-local servers.

All owned by the same company. I'd agree about it being revolutionary if it was on some distributed p2p network like freenet, torrent, ipfs etc. But to call some company doing things in a slightly different manner a new era? Come on

Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by hammyhavoc on Thursday January 27, 2022 @12:24AM (#30096551)
I said "interesting", not "revolutionary", to my knowledge anyway. If I did say "revolutionary", even I don't agree with me.
Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:10AM (#30084971)
It's the "WorldWideWeb".
Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:14AM (#30085004)
Yes, it's the "WorldWideWeb", not the "EqualityWideWeb". Wealth inequality is a thing, and it exists even in the west. But how does that help us? The web is still slow at the end of the day for those on older HW. Does crying about it help how? Or does upgrading to newer and better HW help those who can afford to?

And if western web-devs cared so much about the experience of the users in poor countries, why haven't they optimized it already to run better on older devices?

Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:27AM (#30085099)
webdevs ≠ corporations
Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:47AM (#30085277)
What's your point exactly?

When most people go online they go to consume content on the websites of the biggest corporations like Google, YouTube, Netflix, Reddit, Facebook, TicTok and so on.

That's what most of the internet is for most average consumers.

The fact that indie devs exist who care about well optimized websites doesn't change this.

Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:59AM (#30085426)
The cormobidty of keeping a service alive and renewing it by forcing more and more unwanted features on the users is a fact. Every manager wants to parade around the new shiny thing without listening to their development team. It shows that you are not a webdev because you don't know the inner workings of a big tech corp if you really think it's just some indie devs that care about speed and optimization. The devs very much care.
Re:Ask HN: Why does the modern web hate users? by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:18AM (#30085650)
By web-devs I didn't mean your average employee but any company doing web development and making bad decisions.

I have nothing against the individuals doing web-development, it's just a job to eat and pay rent.