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Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hnthrowaway0315 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @10:28AM (#30046822)
I'm more interested how he managed to master the knowledge of chip manufacturing plus a ton of electronics repairs (see his microscope and other equipment) at such an early age. Very admirable.

Look at what he did:

> Photolithography machines are expensive—up to $150 million—and so Zeloof made his own by bolting a modified conference room projector bought on Amazon onto a microscope. It projects his designs at tiny scale onto silicon wafers that Zeloof coats in material sensitive to ultraviolet light.

> One of Zeloof’s best finds was a broken electron microscope that cost $250,000 in the early ’90s; he bought it for $1,000 and repaired it. He uses it to inspect his chips for flaws, as well as the nanostructures on butterfly wings.

Damn this guy is good.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by erosenbe0 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:21PM (#30048025)
Think of all the kids who might start working on automotive stuff at 8 years old, building race car parts or engines or go karts. Then imagine the best of the best of thousands of them with parental? resources to build out a great kit and tinker with a lot stuff. This guy is the semiconductor equivalent.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hnthrowaway0315 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:30PM (#30048142)
I'm very interested in his childhood education.

I want my kid to start early on something he is interested in too but I don't really know how to do that. I know the general rules (expose him to a lot of stuffs, watch him do things, etc.) but don't know how to implement them properly. I myself wasted a lot of time in my childhood so I guess that's why I don't know how to do it properly.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hwers on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:34PM (#30048196)
You probably can't go wrong with giving your child resources that's too expensive for other children to be exposed to for some free future competitive advantage (which translates to adult success), as a general first heuristic.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bruceb on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:45PM (#30049018)
AKA how Bill Gates because Bill Gates. One of the very few kids to have access to a computer at the time.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by erosenbe0 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @04:13PM (#30050492)
To be fair, Gates published one and only CS paper. It was on prefix sorting and shows pretty serious mastery of discrete math for his age or any age. Perhaps the co-author -- legendary algorithms professor Papadimitriou -- honed the proofs but Gates was clearly not a one-trick programming pony.

He also chased programming like a starved Tiger, doing things like looking through corporate trash bins for source listings and that sort of stuff. Not to mention that Allen was also a person of extreme intellect and Ballmer is actually a mathematician combined with a charismatic business brain and a small nuclear reactor in one.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by adolph on Sunday January 23, 2022 @03:09PM (#30049974)
And Allen:

Microsoft co-founders Bill Gates and Paul Allen first met as teenagers in the late 1960s at Lakeside School in Seattle, when Gates was in eighth grade and Allen was in tenth grade.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/02/microsoft-co-founders-bill-g...

See also Levy: "Inside Bill's Brain Calls BS on Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers Theory":

Inside Bill's Brain lays the Gladwell Theorem to waste. By delving into Gates' very early life, Guggenheim reveals that, basically, Bill Gates arrived on Earth as a Martian. From the instant baby Gates joined his well-off clan, he understood there was a giant impedance mismatch between his cosmic intellect and that of the world. There's an amazing moment when he recounts the time his parents had him take a test to get into an exclusive private school for the sixth grade. He asked himself, did he want to go, figuring that if not, he would purposely blow the test.

https://www.wired.com/story/inside-bills-brain-outliers/

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by whatshisface on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:00PM (#30049193)
You can easily go wrong when you zoom in from abstract resources and find yourself deciding which pieces of hardware they actually could use (almost none of which, it is assumed, you have used yourself.)
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by erosenbe0 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:44PM (#30049722)
You can't really force it and there isn't a formula. I'm just a journeyman software jockey but my brother got into Harvard, Yale, and Stanford even after skipping a year of high school.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hnthrowaway0315 on Monday January 24, 2022 @08:35AM (#30057380)
I totally agree. But I believe there is a process to explore his interests, pinpoint something, and then spend some money to further it.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by erosenbe0 on Monday January 24, 2022 @04:26PM (#30064279)
You don't need necessarily need to spend much. Of course quality music lessons or gymnastics will consistently cost a bunch but the lion's share of things will not. I know plenty of impressive scientists who were very middle class growing up. Collect coins, stamps, or sports memorabilia. Practice sports statistics and trivia. Go for hikes and catalog leaves, plants, and insect specimens. Grow a garden or vegetable from seed. Learn cooking while teaching the physics and chemistry of it, or focus on the artistic aspects. Explore your local road maps and learn navigation skills. Put a world map on the wall, then throw a dart at a country and grab a book on it from the library. Draw comics or try digital art. Draw dinosaurs. Build PCs from spare parts or try retro computing or vintage electronics. Do online coding for kids. Try robotics kits. Learn how to do bike tune-ups and maintenance, then get old grody bikes from friends and refurbish them. Try a new game monthly like Chess, Go, or Backgammon. And an important one would be to take advantage of local geography and culture. For example, in Illinois and Wisconsin, we can enjoy the geology and ecology of the Great Lakes, or the architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hnthrowaway0315 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @09:25AM (#30072074)
I agree with you, there are a lot of possibilities. I'm waiting for him to grow up (just 16 months now) and try those things.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by Breza on Saturday January 29, 2022 @07:08PM (#30132048)
My daughter is only a month older and I share your feelings. I'm glad you posted that comment above, I often feel intimidated about admitting how little I truly know about parenting.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by HeyLaughingBoy on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:28AM (#30059802)
Just remain flexible when his interests completely change six months in...
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hnthrowaway0315 on Monday January 24, 2022 @02:23PM (#30062574)
haha very true...
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hn_throwaway_99 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:45AM (#30047635)
Agreed! Such a cool project.

Regarding the custom photolithography machine, I recall seeing some pictures of chip workers from the 70s that essentially did the same thing.

A group of women (I'm pretty sure it was all women) were responsible for manually drawing out (actually more like cutting out) the chip designs on these big sheets, which were then projected down to create the photoresist masks.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by michaelt on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:50PM (#30048380)
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by savant_penguin on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:58AM (#30047758)
omg he could make it a business to buy these microscopes, fix and resell for 100k each
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by derac on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:18PM (#30049398)
Assuming there are a lot of cheap broken electron microscopes floating around.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by Cosmin_C on Thursday January 27, 2022 @05:59AM (#30098905)
This guy is basically Tony Stark with a box of scraps. I'm speechless.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by dqpb on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:39PM (#30049645)
Where does one find broken electron microscopes from the 90s?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by HeyLaughingBoy on Monday January 24, 2022 @11:31AM (#30059873)
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ezconnect on Sunday January 23, 2022 @11:59AM (#30047774)
He has support from his family.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by zomglings on Sunday January 23, 2022 @03:07PM (#30049944)
That was necessary but not sufficient for him to have built what he has. He deserves credit for what he has done.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bsder on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:24PM (#30052963)
His efforts are really cool.

However, that garage space alone is expensive. It's larger than many small hackerspaces.

I know of very few children who have access to that much lab/storage space all to themselves.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hnthrowaway0315 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:01PM (#30047792)
For sure, but I bet not all kids with support from their family do cool things. Or put it in the other way, you have to prove yourself worthy before getting any fund (even from parents).
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bradlys on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:10PM (#30048600)
> Or put it in the other way, you have to prove yourself worthy before getting any fund (even from parents).

I really don’t know where you got this mindset but it’s 100% not true. I know many parents who throw many resources at their kids whenever their kids show even slight interest in something. Even if they don’t show interest in many things - they still get great access.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by 0xedd on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:34PM (#30052215)
An exception to prove the rule. Throwing money at a kid, unwarranted (slight interest makes it unwarranted), spoils the kid.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by JohnBooty on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:14PM (#30047940)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the best way to understand this kid is that he is definitely at the intersection of privilege and talent.

That is not to take anything away from his achievements. This kid's kicking ass.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by quickthrower2 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:32PM (#30049570)
The other factor is access to youtube to find likeminded people and have things explained and see what is possible. When I was young I loved computers but even install Linux or learn machine code seemed like this impenetrable world that was “for adults”. I think the modern internet is great for people sharing knowhow.

That said this man is a genius!

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by 0xedd on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:36PM (#30052227)
Disagree. Didn't have YouTube, Google, etc and still cracked video game protections when i was 10.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by JohnBooty on Monday January 24, 2022 @08:53AM (#30057558)
Nobody is saying that Youtube/Google/etc are necessary. Clearly people managed to do cool and clever things before those resources were available.

It's beyond obvious, though, that having good resources is helpful and opens this kind of thing up to a larger number of participants.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by quickthrower2 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:08PM (#30052442)
What were your resources to learn this?
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bradlys on Sunday January 23, 2022 @09:36PM (#30053057)
"Unzip rar file, copy, paste."

Probably just used warez from torrents like everyone else did when they were that age.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by jeegsy on Monday January 24, 2022 @10:20AM (#30058695)
> That is not to take anything away from his achievements

The entire purpose of mentioning his privilege at all is to take away from his achievements. Otherwise, why mention it. Surely it is obvious to all who read the article that you would have had to have access to capital to do what he did?

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by JohnBooty on Monday January 24, 2022 @10:17PM (#30067476)
If you want to believe my opinion is something other than the one I'm explicitly stating, that is a very strange decision.

For the record: I'm not sure how much more clear I can be, but I do not feel that it takes away from his achievements whatsoever. I made my statement in reply to another poster who seemed to have the impression that this level of opportunity was the norm in America. That was the full extent of my "purpose."

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by sabhiram on Sunday January 23, 2022 @12:19PM (#30048007)
What this "kid" has done in his garage would still be impressive with more than modest support from the venture community.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by missedthecue on Monday January 24, 2022 @12:28AM (#30054022)
So did I and I'm not that smart
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by steve_taylor on Sunday January 23, 2022 @06:33PM (#30051796)
Thanks for not politicizing this kid’s achievements.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by resueman on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:12PM (#30048622)
So basically a member of the middle class in a developed country. How remarkable.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ad404b8a372f2b9 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:27PM (#30048811)
I don't know many middle class families who would buy 10s of thousands of dollars worth of equipment for their kid.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by primax on Sunday January 23, 2022 @07:52PM (#30052316)
You likely do and haven't realised.

A decent quality upright piano is about $10000.

Some kids have go karting or motorcycle racing hobbies. Some have archery, golf, etc. They all cost a lot of money over time. Hell, some kids sail! That's really not cheap.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by seoulmetro on Sunday January 23, 2022 @08:07PM (#30052429)
That's only upper-middle class though.

So not much of the middle class.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by emteycz on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:52PM (#30049092)
Many. Middle class is a lot of people. Usually it goes into sports, though.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bpodgursky on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:52PM (#30049098)
There are a lot of middle class families who spend 10s of thousands of dollars on sports camps, dance lessons, ski instructors, piano tutors... if their kid was really excited by electronics instead I can see a lot of families helping with that hobby.

Like yes that is a sizeable sum of money worthy of consideration but it's not at all prohibitive or unusual for a middle class family.

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by quickthrower2 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @02:35PM (#30049606)
I would describe what you said as upper-middle class at least. Everyone seems to have different definitions though and the tech crowd is probably skewed up.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by bpodgursky on Sunday January 23, 2022 @03:52PM (#30050332)
I'm sure it skews that way but I've seen middle or even lower-middle class families invest a ton of resources into sports or dance specifically.

(also, a lot of working class Asian families invest heavily into music)

Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by hnthrowaway0315 on Tuesday January 25, 2022 @09:27AM (#30072101)
I think it depends on how middle class they are. If they are new immigrants who just get a pair of jobs I think even 1K is a lot of money. However over time they should be able to build up the fund for their kids. And again some families have a lot of kids with different interests, so that's also tough to allocate 10K for each of them.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by resueman on Sunday January 23, 2022 @01:49PM (#30049061)
Well that goalpost sure made a leap. Spread it out over six years and imagine the kid is pulling in real cash with a youtube channel showcasing his projects.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by ad404b8a372f2b9 on Sunday January 23, 2022 @03:34PM (#30050173)
The 1000 dollars bill is for a single piece of equipment, a full lab is considerably more. The median household income is 70k in the U.S, in western Europe it's closer to 30k. The income distribution on youtube follows a power law. I don't think that puts it within reach of your average middle class family, even over 5 years.
Re:22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage by resueman on Sunday January 23, 2022 @06:17PM (#30051656)
How about the distibution of income for youtube accounts with millions of views? which is what the article says he has.

He also has a patreon account linked on there.