Re:The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Spar...
by urubu on Friday January 21, 2022 @01:56PM
(#30028262)
Not to be pedantic, but I think 'laying' has a different etymology, namely this one (quote from the OED):
'lay, v.1 General sense: To cause to lie.
[OE. lęcgan = OFris. ledsa, lega, leia, OS. leggian (Du. leggen), OHG. lecken, legen (MHG., mod.G. legen), ON. legja (Sw. lägga, Da. lægge), Goth. (= OTeut.) lagjan, f. lag- ablaut-variant of OTeut. leg-: see lie v.'
OE = Old English, OFris.= Old Frisian etc.
Re:The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Spar...
by halpert on Friday January 21, 2022 @07:42PM
(#30031864)
I think GPs “lay” may be like “lay person” which is not the use in the poem.
Re:The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Spar...
by burnished on Friday January 21, 2022 @02:22PM
(#30028660)
Can't comment about the roots of the words, but I agree with your assessment of those words.
This is actually one of my favorite games to play with friends, taking a word and talking about it's connotations, or contrasting it with another similar word. Nothing super academic, just our own thoughts and feelings and examples of use.
Re:The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Spar...
by ng12 on Friday January 21, 2022 @02:54PM
(#30029075)
Whenever there's a pair of synonyms where one is fancier than the other it's almost always because one is French in origin (i.e. used by the Norman upper class) and the other German (i.e. used by the Anglo-Saxon peasantry). Think "purchase" vs. "buy".
Re:The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Spar...
by srcreigh on Friday January 21, 2022 @03:15PM
(#30029372)
My favourite example is "fact" vs "factitious". The word "factitious" actually means bogus, make, made up. Whereas "fact" means quite the opposite. However they both come from the same latin word "facere" which means to do or to make.
Have fun digging into that one!
Re:The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Spar...
by cafard on Friday January 21, 2022 @02:02PM
(#30028334)
"lay" as in "layman" or "lay preacher" does have the derivation you give.
As a verb, "lay it down" has Germanic roots, e.g. "liegen". The Greek cognate seems to be "lexos", "bed". (All this from Skeat's etymological dictionary.)
"Lay" is from Middle English lay, from Old French lai, from Latin laicus, from Ancient Greek λαϊκός (laïkós).
In English, "sit" feels immediate and active where "lay" is passive and indirect. The distinction is both important and rooted in history.
It is incredibly stupid that we still have editors trying to force English poetry into Latinate forms almost a millenium after the battle of Hastings and all the consequent Anglo/Norman jockeying for position.