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Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by claaams on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:11PM (#29974995)
He needs to be fired. I want to play one of their games but I won't until bobby kotick is no longer the CEO. So never.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by tjpnz on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:26PM (#29975105)
I deleted my Blizzard account when they censored and banned a Taiwanese e-sports competitor for speaking out on Hong Kong. It's a shame because I had been planning to give WoW classic a try.

Edit: While the tournament was held in Taiwan, Blitzchung is actually a native of Hong Kong.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by LukeShu on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:45PM (#29975219)
> a Taiwanese e-sports competitor for speaking out on Hong Kong

Not that it makes much of a difference, but:

It is my understanding that he's from Hong Kong, and is not Taiwanese. It is my understanding that Taiwan comes in to the picture only because the Blizzard event that he spoke out at was in Taiwan; that he has no connection to Taiwan.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by tjpnz on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @02:21AM (#29976116)
>It is my understanding that he's from Hong Kong, and is not Taiwanese.

Thanks for pointing that out, you're indeed correct that he's a Hong Konger. I've edited my comment.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by chii on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:31PM (#29975127)
while i do understand the plight of HK's fight, it does make sense that a non-affiliated individual should not be able to make political statements on someone else's platform, unless with prior consent.

The competitor should be free to make his case in his own platform(s), but not on a platform he doesn't own if the owners of that platform doesn't want to affiliate themselves with the political discourse.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by gaganyaan on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:39PM (#29975186)
This is just appeasement. "Just don't make a fuss" is sticking your fingers in your ears as atrocities happen.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by kodemager on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @01:59AM (#29975997)
I agree, but how do you boycott China? Every piece of hardware that I own has parts in them that was manufactured in China and where I live there aren’t alternatives.

I too deleted my Blizzard account in the wake of the HK nonsense, but it’s not like I had bought anything from them since Diablo 3 released considering I refunded my Warcraft 3 remade, so it felt a little like virtue signalling that nobody probably noticed.

Especially because we subscribe to Disney+ (I have young children), and I still buy a lot of things that were likely made by near (or possibly) slave labour. I know it’s still better to avoid what you can, but I can’t help but feel a little hypocritical about it.

At least with Blizard it turned out to have been a very good call when their toxic culture was revealed.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by junon on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:05AM (#29975341)
> it does make sense that

No, sorry, it makes absolutely zero sense.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by scoutt on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @04:29AM (#29976918)
I kind of agree with you, but just because it creates a precedent. If Blizzard allows a political statement, then now they have to allow other political statements too. As a result, they will have to "regulate" which political statements is allowed or denied, which will force them in a position of having to judge about what is wrong and what is right. And what corporation wants to do that?

Not all political statements are "black" or "white", "right" or "wrong" (Manichaeism style), and there are a lot of gray areas sometimes, and everybody has something to complain about on Twitter. And if Blizzard decides "wrong" then they may suffer and repair the backslash.

So the reaction from Blizzard is like the sign you used to see in a lot of bars: "No politics, no religion".

Understand I'm not saying that the player is wrong about what he said, or justifying what happens in HK.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by bodge5000 on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @03:35AM (#29976582)
If they can do what they like with their platform, for whatever reason, I can do what I like with my money/time, for whatever reason (eg not spending money on a platform because I dont like political stance). And now we're back to were we are now.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by harles on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:47PM (#29975233)
Which platforms are left to make statements on?
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by seattle_spring on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:56PM (#29975284)
I'm personally not sure where to stand on this. On one hand, you're right: you can probably come up with an excuse for every platform as to why "making a statement" shouldn't be permitted.

On the other hand, do we really want everyone able to make political statements in unrelated arenas? Literally everyone feels strongly about something. Letting all causes be elevated via unrelated venues would be untenable, which means you must draw a line somewhere.

I suppose it's not totally unreasonable to draw that line by saying, "all content must be related to the topic at hand" when it comes to, for example, a gaming competition.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by naiwenwt on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:36AM (#29975517)
> Letting all causes be elevated via unrelated venues would be untenable

I'm not sure it would be untenable. People generally intuit the social cost/risk that comes with making a statement in an unrelated venue. That is a natural force acting against people randomly bringing up strongly held opinions on unrelated platforms. Explicitly drawing and enforcing a line just doesn't seem necessary.

> I suppose it's not totally unreasonable to draw that line by saying, "all content must be related to the topic at hand"

I think this would have the effect of either completely sterilizing platform discussion or being impossible to enforce reasonably. For instance, what would happen if a competitor just mentioned something totally innocuous that would incense nobody but was off-topic? Should that be punished?

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by kyleee on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:09AM (#29975365)
that's what the off topic subforum is for, every site should have one in some form as every true community wants to talk about unrelated (to the main site topic) stuff especially as people get to know one another
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by chii on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:53PM (#29975269)
I do believe making a website is still cheap and easy. Not to mention some platforms like twitter do allow for political discourse on them (even if spotty).

The idea is that if the platform owners don't want it, a platform user should respect that choice.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by jonathankoren on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:10AM (#29975371)
Respect is a bit too far for me. Accept, is more more style.

When you play in someone else's sandbox, you're going to have to deal with their rules. No one is guaranteed an audience.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by naiwenwt on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:22AM (#29975448)
Conversely, if someone makes their sandbox publicly available, they accept some risk that someone else in it may behave in a way that they don't like.

You can argue that Blizzard was well within their rights in punishing Blitzchung, but then Blizzard's audience is well within their rights to be upset with said punishment.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by jonathankoren on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:52PM (#29982901)
> Conversely, if someone makes their sandbox publicly available, they accept some risk that someone else in it may behave in a way that they don't like.

Actually, you don’t have to accept that. That’s what moderation is for.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by naiwenwt on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @01:50PM (#29983862)
Moderation is a method to manage the risk, if anything the existence of moderation indicates that platforms accept it to some extent.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by Levitz on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @06:00AM (#29977465)
>I do believe making a website is still cheap and easy

Is it now? Parler shows that if you rock the boat, your hosting will be pulled and your phone app removed. Google censors a certain page that was the successor to r/The_Donald on Reddit, along with another certain chan style site. Similarly Gab got payment processors and hosting pulled out.

Now I have never bothered to explore these sites, but if their public image is telling of the truth, then I deplore the political narrative within them. Yet they still paint a real clear example that companies can and will screw you over if they want to, with not a whole lot you can do about it.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by aidenn0 on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @01:42AM (#29975915)
Blizzard will bow to what the customers want; if more customers want people to be able to make pro-HK statements, then they are going to allow it. Otherwise they won't. Also, the platform has little to do with it. Disney dropped someone for statements made primarily on Twitter. They decided they didn't want their brand associated with it.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by throwaway894345 on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:58PM (#29975307)
Exercising our rights to boycott their platform isn’t denying their right to lick commie boots. :p Seriously though, this whole “you criticized their speech, but they have a right to free speech” fallacy is really getting old.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by virtue3 on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:56PM (#29975291)
That would violate freedom of speech. Which is the first amendment of the bill of rights of America. And blizzard being an American company this really irked a lot of us.

"The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition. ... It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely."

Freedom of speech does not protect you from harming others directly (yelling "bomb" on an airplane is not protected). But the issue with HK and China is -entirely- what the first amendment is trying to protect (albeit usually this is usually to protect Americans to complain about America).

When Americans see an American company denying someone what we perceive as an unalienable right it becomes infuriating.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by seattle_spring on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:00AM (#29975315)
You're misunderstanding how the first amendment is applied. Freedom of speech means the government cannot limit what you can say. A private entity, such as Blizzard/Activision, has no such obligation.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by seneca on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:10AM (#29975376)
> Freedom of speech means the government cannot limit what you can say. A private entity, such as Blizzard/Activision, has no such obligation.

This is absolutely incorrect. To Americans, Freedom of Speech is, as the person you're replying to said, an inalienable right of all human beings. It's a fundamental principal of our society. The first amendment is a legal constraint on the US government that keeps them from violating that right. It does not grant the right, the right belongs to all humans simply from the nature of being.

Think of it like this. People don't think murder is wrong because it's illegal. We have laws in place making it illegal to setup how government handles murder, and we want those laws because murdering a person is wrong at a deep and fundamental level. The laws follow from the underlying ethical beliefs. Freedom of Speech works exactly the same way.

So a company like Blizzard censoring an activist is not a violation of the First Amendment, but it is arguable a violation of Freedom of Speech.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by seattle_spring on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:14AM (#29975400)
Many Americans, myself included, would deeply disagree that "freedom of Speech" translates to "can say whatever you want wherever you want." Otherwise we'd all opt for 8-chan style message boards where anyone can say whatever they want. It's not at all unreasonable to want a particular event to remain on-topic to the event, and not allow literally everyone to use it as their own personal soapbox for their cause of the week.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by sharken on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @01:05AM (#29975693)
Not an American here, in principle i agree.

But in reality you can't hide the fact, that limiting freedom of speech is very much in the interest of those who want full control on what we can say.

A good example is the Muhammad cartoons, which reminds us that there is a very long way to go before religions can exist peacefully.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_car...

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by virtue3 on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @01:34AM (#29975865)
I mean, that's exactly the point.

So when we see it being limited it freaks us out.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by Levitz on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @06:05AM (#29977513)
Sure, I think that's fair, yet a restriction on freedom of speech, which doesn't have to be inherently bad.

Going with the same kind of example: society agrees that murder, thievery and lying are bad things, yet find it justifiable to kill in self-defense, to steal in order to eat, and to lie in certain situations.

I'll also say that it's very different to limit a certain type of speech than to limit speech you disagree with.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by seneca on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:20AM (#29975439)
Sure, I don't disagree with any of that. I was just taking exception with the claim that the First Amendment and Freedom of Speech are the same thing. I'm also generally on board with Freedom of Association though. I wouldn't, for instance, put up with someone screaming obscenities in my front yard simply because stopping them would violate their Freedom of Speech.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by Byteflux on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:51AM (#29975609)
Like individuals, businesses also have an inalienable right to free speech.

Whether you like it or not, censorship among private individuals and businesses is an exercise in free speech. It's within my right to free speech to set the terms of your speech in my home, in my businesses or anywhere else on my property.

Your right to free speech is not violated by private censorship. Although the concept of free speech can exist independently of the First Amendment, the "right" to free speech cannot.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by lmm on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @12:57AM (#29975650)
> Like individuals, businesses also have an inalienable right to free speech.

Nonsense. Humans have inalienable rights. Businesses exist on our sufferance, they don't have an inalienable right to anything.

Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by Byteflux on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @04:01AM (#29976748)
Your statement doesn't align with reality, so I'll assume you're stating an opinion rather than a fact. Free speech is an inalienable right protected by the First Amendment and afforded to both individuals and businesses, that is a fact.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by hhjinks on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @05:50AM (#29977395)
Free Speech is inalienable under the constitution, until it isn't. The First Amendment isn't a natural right. Humans have a natural right to free speech, businesses don't.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by int_19h on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:42AM (#29990693)
"Businesses" is not a useful distinction here, because an individual can be a business in their personal capacity. What matters are legal corporations, which would not exist at all if not for the government chartering them. The question is whether those fictitious legal entities have a right to free speech that is separate from such right of all the persons who constitute them.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by pcurve on Monday January 17, 2022 @11:55PM (#29975281)
It's embarrassing how he still has his job. Really shame on the board of directors at this point.
Re:Activision Blizzard pushes out dozens of employees over w... by shultays on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @03:02AM (#29976373)
Hard to fire someone that owns a good chunk of the company