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Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by bitwize on Sunday January 16, 2022 @06:17AM (#29955060)
> Some basic strategies:

> 1. stay in school

> 2. don't do drugs

> 3. don't do crimes

You forgot:

4. be born to rich parents

That probably has a greater influence on chances of success than most others.

Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by kbenson on Sunday January 16, 2022 @06:24AM (#29955093)
It probably does, but it's not something you can affect, so not really of note when discussing what you can do to increase you odds of succeeding in something, which is what he was doing.

It's also worth noting that the advice applies to people born wealthy too. You aren't likely to become a guitar god without practice even if you have money. It just might be easier to find the time to actually practice.

Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by hirvi74 on Sunday January 16, 2022 @05:16PM (#29960816)
> not really of note when discussing what you can do to increase you odds of succeeding in something

It's because it chips away at people's egos. It hurts people to realize how much of their success was pure luck. It's hard to look down on others that way. Same with intelligence -- no one chooses their intelligence, so I find it odd when people boast about their borderline-pseudo-science-better-than-you-score, I mean, IQ score.

What is the story about the emerald mining, abused Zambian worker who turned into billionaire who started their own space program again? Right, it wasn't that person, but the son of the family that owned the mines that started his own space program (Musk).

> It's also worth noting that the advice applies to people born wealthy too. You aren't likely to become a guitar god without practice even if you have money. It just might be easier to find the time to actually practice.

I completely agree. One has to use what is given to them, but it's a lot easier to use an ability when one has an opportunity.

I can't remember who, but a highly talented and famous musician , was once asked, "Who do you think the greatest <instrument> player of all time is?" He said, "It was probably some kid in a 3rd-world factory who never got to hold an instrument in their life."

Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by kbenson on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @02:31PM (#29984483)
> It's because it chips away at people's egos.

I mean, I'm not going to dispute there's a massive amount of luck that goes into almost everyone's success, but I also think in many (probably even the vast majority) of cases, luck is just going to give you the opportunity, and drive and keeping on track as much as you can is what lets you take advantage of those opportunities.

The difference between the advantaged and disadvantaged is how many times those opportunities knock (or if you're really advantaged, kicks your door down and basically carries you).

Many people that have succeeded have a hard time accepting that it might not have been all their own drive and ambition and actions that account for where they ended up, because to be consistent with their view of themselves that might lead them to give some of their good fortune to others, and there's a lot of mental biases to prevent people from accepting that.

At the same time, many people that aren't succeeding have a hard time accepting that perhaps their own actions have played a large role in why some past opportunities never panned out. In the end, for your personal growth it's best to focus on what you can affect, which is not your birth circumstances and how that might affect you negatively (not to ignore it, but don't let it prevent forward movement). For society, we should look at both.

Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by DarylZero on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @07:18AM (#29978010)
LOL the whole point of the "advice" is just to imply that people who aren't rich are all drug-users, high school dropouts, or convicts.
Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by bennysomething on Sunday January 16, 2022 @10:09AM (#29956554)
Except that 80 percent of American millionaires are first generation affluent. Source: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Am...
Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by 988747 on Sunday January 16, 2022 @12:15PM (#29957796)
What's their definition of "millionaire"? Thanks to inflation it is now possible to become one just by virtue of having a household of two white collar workers, each making 150k annually, no kids, no cars - after a decade or two you cross 1M USD net worth.

I think it is helpful to define "millionaire" in 1920s dollars ($20M today)

Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by lukas099 on Monday January 17, 2022 @08:58AM (#29966577)
It's been a long time since I've read the book, but I remember the average millionaire household they surveyed only having a single income of $70k or something.
Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by caddemon on Sunday January 16, 2022 @11:10AM (#29957118)
It doesn't surprise me that there can be a lot of movement among the lower to upper middle class brackets. I suspect where the unfairness is really apparent is the bottom 20% or so. What are expected adulthood earnings for kids that grow up below the poverty line?
Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by simplestats on Sunday January 16, 2022 @04:50PM (#29960545)
Once you restrict your stats to those that stay in school and don't do drugs, I'd think it is hard to correct for other causes. Like the presence of involved parents.
Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by nickpp on Sunday January 16, 2022 @09:07AM (#29956069)
Actually location is the most important indicative of success in life. So if you were born in the USA you already won such a lottery that it completely dwarfs the rest of influences on your chances of success.

As to rich parents - that can't be an important indicator, just by considering how many more rich people are in the current generation compared to the previous one: who helped them?!

Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by DarylZero on Tuesday January 18, 2022 @07:20AM (#29978017)
> how many more rich people are in the current generation compared to the previous one

Fewer isn't it? There is _increasing_ inequality.

Anyway, it's structural, whether the social systems deliver the economic product to a smaller number or larger number of people. It's not down to differences between individuals receiving or not receiving the product.

Re:Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? by WalterBright on Sunday January 16, 2022 @02:01PM (#29958785)
I am indeed talking about living in a free country, like the USA. Communist societies actively destroy anyone who is successful.