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Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by taylodl on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:03AM (#29922205)
No. Things are just going back to the way they used to be: higher education is for the elites. Once upon a time we understood that higher education was important for all and having a well-educated public was good for the Republic. Now that view no longer holds - the politicians have learned that their flim-flam doesn't work as well on a well-educated public and so they've been making cuts to higher education for the past 20 years. We're just now getting to the point where the cuts are having a serious impact to the middle class being able to afford college. Don't worry though - the elites will be just fine.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by 9dev on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:13AM (#29922363)
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

It's enough to assume elites were greedy (and/or dense) and didn't consider long-term effects, you don't even need a decades-spanning conspiracy for it.

The elites won't be as fine once they realise much of their wealth stems from the rest of the republic, but that seems to be the circle humanity is caught in for eternity.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by mistrial9 on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:32AM (#29922685)
it is my vague impression from history that in real yet slow-moving crisis, those that are able to command and control high-value resources do in fact continue to thrive while others fail in increasing numbers. This works, until it doesn't, to make a cute phrase, because in dynamic systems, either the system re-stabilizes in a new and different composition, or there is sudden, increased failure.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by 9dev on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:50AM (#29923032)
If I understood you correctly, you're describing the efficiency-resilience problem: A system that is efficient is highly specialised for their environment, and thus susceptible to failure if the environment changes; a system that is resilient will not be as efficient, but can adapt to a changing environment.

This seems to apply to all kinds of things - people, organisations, software, religions.

I guess as often in live, balance is important here :)

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by deepsquirrelnet on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:22PM (#29930564)
What does this say about economics and supply chain failures during a pandemic? I think you’re on to something.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by rossdavidh on Thursday January 13, 2022 @04:29PM (#29927145)
True, and you might be interested in Peter Turchin's "Ages of Discord" for a more in-depth investigation into how and why that happens.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by echelon on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:31AM (#29922661)
That's an interesting take, but I disagree.

The reason colleges cost so much is that they've expanded their administration, facilities, and sports programs to soak up all of the available loan money.

I went to a state school that focused on STEM. The acceptance rate was low, class sizes were small, and the tuitions were reasonable. The buildings dated from the 60's. We didn't have extensive athletic programs, and our gym was falling apart. The school didn't spare expenses on things that didn't contribute directly to education.

We still had access to full machine shops, doppler radar installations, flow cytometers, BSL-3 labs, electron microscopes, wind tunnels, robotics facilities, and a boat load of really cool stuff. But it certainly didn't feel like an ivory tower.

Though our school wasn't losing money, the state board of regents decided to merge it into a much larger "liberal arts" school. This was done so that it could hit the student body requirements in order to qualify for building its own division I football program.

They built lots of fancy buildings for their dance program and theater productions. I can't even count how many stadiums and sports facilities they've constructed - it feels like two dozen! They're also purchasing lots of expensive real estate to enhance the size of the main campus. Meanwhile tuition has quadrupled and fees have gone up 1,000%.

It's bloat. That's why everything costs so much.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by lordnacho on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:35AM (#29922754)
I wonder if there's a market for schools that specifically don't have a sports program. I suspect the atmosphere at such a place would be attractive to a large minority of prospective students.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by taylodl on Thursday January 13, 2022 @04:15PM (#29926968)
A lot of students who may not play sports competitively still enjoy playing sports recreationally and really, given the sad state of American's health these days, we really need to be promoting the development of both mind and body.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by dragonsky on Thursday January 13, 2022 @11:38PM (#29930641)
Could somebody explain to me (Australian) why/how sport and higher education became so closely linked? We certainly have university sporting teams here, but they are not really notable and certainly don't have the political clout that they do in US schools.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by lordnacho on Friday January 14, 2022 @03:28AM (#29931896)
In Europe all the football teams have their own junior teams that are separate from education. Eg there are Chelsea/Real Madrid/Bayern under-10s teams that kids attend after school and feed up to the seniors. In addition, the leagues in Europe are a pyramid. Part-timers play at the bottom, superstars at the top. There's relegation and promotion, and players can develop at lower league teams to get bought by the top clubs later.

In the US they don't have that. AFAIK, there's no "Green Bay Packers U-18s" football team that is integrated with the professional club and promotes young players. Baseball does have a farm team system called the Minor Leagues.

The NCAA which runs university athletics in the US managed to make a junior league feeding all the professional leagues in various sports. The progression for an American athlete is then to get a scholarship to play at some university, and then get drafted by a professional team once they finish.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by danny_codes on Thursday January 13, 2022 @09:29PM (#29929928)
It's just a market failure.

Student loans are government-guaranteed and cannot be absolved by bankruptcy. This IMO creates a perfect storm whereby under-informed teenagers can get massive loans they have no hope of repaying. Without the government/no bankruptcy components to this equation, the market would not support this kind of debt market.

Fortunately, this is easy to fix. There are two simple options (and probably many more complex ones):

1. Make it a free market. Make student debt absolvable by bankruptcy. Don't give government guarantees. Private loans will account for the viability of student's repaying those loans, while allowing bankruptcy helps ensure that unfair or predatory loans will be costly to the loan-issuer.

2. Make it a government service, like K-12. The government will actively manage the tertiary education market, thus making "the cost of college" a policy decision.

IMO the first one is not particularly desirable because it will limit college access to the upper socio-economic classes, further exacerbating wealth inequality and reducing social mobility. That leaves us with the second option, which is both straightforward to implement and has many case-studies abroad.

Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by taylodl on Thursday January 13, 2022 @04:12PM (#29926920)
The administrative bloat helps cover the fact that their graduates aren't able to get jobs upon graduating. Parents and prospective students feel good that 99.7% of the graduates got a job within their first year of graduation and don't realize 7% of that was as an administrator for the college.
Re:More than 1M fewer students are in college, the lowest nu... by whywhywhywhy on Friday January 14, 2022 @08:56AM (#29934427)
> the politicians have learned that their flim-flam doesn't work as well on a well-educated public

Looking at recent graduates are we sure that this system is truly preparing them for the realities of the real world and how to understand it.

Feels more to me that a whole generation is being scammed into paying for broken tools.