News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by vkou on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @02:14PM (#29896279)
> How did we get to this?

We got to this because service worker wages grew slower than necessary-for-life expenses like food, shelter, medical care, childcare, education, etc.

Meanwhile, many professional wages grew much faster than all of those things.

This is also the reason for why many ski towns in 2022 are unable to find enough staff to keep either the resorts, or the restaurants open. Nobody working those jobs can afford to live in those towns anymore, so you get a bunch of millionaires going off to vacation in their winter dachas, only to discover that there's nobody there to cater to them.

Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by fshbbdssbbgdd on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @03:13PM (#29897163)
> Nobody working those jobs can afford to live in those towns anymore, so you get a bunch of millionaires going off to vacation in their winter dachas, only to discover that there's nobody there to cater to them.

This seems like a price stickiness problem. If there’s demand from tourists buy food, but not enough staff, the restaurants can raise their prices and raise the wages they offer. At some point, either demand to go to restaurants goes down because people don’t want to pay (so the staff aren’t needed), or wages increase enough that the staff can afford to live. The end state isn’t peachy for everyone (the ski area becomes a place that only the most wealthy can afford to visit) but at least the problem of understaffing is solved.

Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by vineyardmike on Friday January 14, 2022 @09:23PM (#29942976)
I feel like this problem grew as the ability for the middle class to enjoy leisurely actives grew. There was a time when the MC grew, and could spend money and things were great. It was unsustainable, but it took a while for the prices to catch up - eg. ski towns had housing before ski'ing was generally popular, and slowly it was bought faster than replenished and now that skiing is popular, the demand far outstrips supply. Over time they priced out service work, and now we'll need to swing back to a state where the middle class no longer can afford those luxuries, and the service workers have to be more middle class because they're paid so well to cover the costs.
Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by darth_avocado on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @06:32PM (#29900016)
That's not entirely true though. Ski resort towns have always had a problem with hiring enough staff because:

1. Towns are located in space constrained location that you mostly want to reserve for paying guests 2. It is a seasonal business and cannot guarantee wages throughout the year 3. The jobs can be very hard to do 4. A large portion of the staff is full of young people who want to ski a lot and make money to support the lifestyle

In fact, ski towns and resorts do much more for workers than you realize

1. Beyond wages, you get subsidized housing and food either on prem (If your job is crucial enough) or in the nearby towns 2. Resorts pay for a continuous well oiled public transport system better than all of the country, mostly to make sure the employees can come in on time very easily. In certain locations, these rides are free or subsidized to employees 3. For the young kids that take up jobs on resorts because they just want to ski for a couple months, if they're employees, they get access to the lifts and other perks that supports their hobby. 4.Some resorts also guarantee year long pay and better benefits if you are one of the specialized staff (the person who operates the snow plow up the mountain)

Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by listenallyall on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @07:55PM (#29900853)
All valid reasons. Additionally:

Ski resorts rely heavily on H2-B visas (temporary foreign workers) but as more and more companies recognized the benefits of such workers, the total number of applications grew far beyond the available visas... meaning ski resorts get fewer and fewer successful applications granted.

Epic Passes have significantly lowered the cost of a season ski pass. Getting a free pass was a big part of the wage equation when such passes were very expensive -- less so when they only cost about 700.

Since the pandemic, housing prices in secondary/tertiary locations has exploded, more than in central cities. Lake Tahoe area, for example, is through the roof... decent housing is in such demand that it's unaffordable.

Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by bpodgursky on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @02:21PM (#29896401)
OK, but the wages also grew slower than necessary because the income was padded by tips, reducing pressure on the business to raise wages to retain employees.

When restaurant servers don't get any tips it makes steady-wage jobs like warehouses or grocery stores relatively more appealing compared to customer-facing jobs.

Not a great cycle.

Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by vkou on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @02:39PM (#29896683)
> OK, but the wages also grew slower than necessary because the income was padded by tips, reducing pressure on the business to raise wages to retain employees.

Tips are better for the business, because it lets them price-differentiate, and thus serve more customers. The more meals a restaurant serves, the more money it gets, regardless of how well or poorly the customers tip.

Over the past 40 years, businesses had a lot more bargaining power than service workers, and have obviously optimized their operations in a way that benefits their bottom line.

If you don't like these outcomes, you have a few options.

1. You can curtail business bargaining power by empowering workers.

2. You can curtail business bargaining power across the board, by raising wage and benefit floors through legislature.

3. You can curtail the rising delta between service wages and living costs, by having someone else (the middle class, the rich, corporations, Uncle Bezos, importers, ???) pay for the difference.

4. You can curtail the rising delta between service wages and living costs, by setting price ceilings on living costs through legislature.

5. You can curtail the rising delta between service wages and living costs, by bringing costs down, via creating a competing low-cost provider through legislature.

... Or you can shrug your shoulders, and just pay your 20-25% gratuity for the exact same level of service that used to earn a 10% gratuity.

Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by bpodgursky on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @02:43PM (#29896734)
Businesses don't have to pressure employees into taking tips rather than wages. Employees almost never pay taxes on (cash) tips... it's a feature, to most service employees.

It doesn't make it good, at a system level.

Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by vkou on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @02:49PM (#29896814)
Outside of restaurants mostly serving the unbanked, hardly anyone pays or tips with cash in 2022.
Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @06:20PM (#29899882)
People who would would rather let the person receiving the tip decide if the government deserves a cut tip cash. And as others have said, using the employer's card processing flow gives the employer opportunities to do less than great things.
Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by bpodgursky on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @03:33PM (#29897432)
A lot of bars and bar-adjacent restaurants outside of SF and NYC rely heavily on cash.
Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by sokoloff on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @04:16PM (#29898038)
Even when I pay the check with a credit card, I will frequently tip in cash at a sit-down restaurant or bar (which I’m not going to at the moment as they aren’t much fun currently, but hope they’ll return in force this year).
Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by walshemj on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @06:04PM (#29899692)
Cash is better the employer can abuse tips given via cards - and screw the employees
Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by listenallyall on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @07:47PM (#29900771)
Perhaps some wages grew slower because they received tips? Generally wages are set at a market-clearing price. People were willing, for decades, to take positions as waiters, waitresses, bartenders, etc, because tips were a big portion of their take-home pay... and was also subject to reduced taxation.
Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by daniel-cussen on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @04:14PM (#29898004)
Fine, so close them.

Isn't a dacha a summer house?

Re:The Tipping Point: The Economics of Taxi Fares by vkou on Tuesday January 11, 2022 @05:23PM (#29899038)
A dacha is a vacation home. Seasonal, year-round, summer, winter, all depends on how you like to vacation.

Since it's an Eastern European term, and since winter in much of Eastern Europe sucks, it's commonly associated with a seasonal summer home - but can refer to any vacation property.