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Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by dmcgee on Saturday January 08, 2022 @08:01AM (#29851254)
Is a blockchain strictly necessary for decentralization at all? If the issue with decentralization is control and governance rather than technology, why not have a cooperative model that still functions on a centralized database?
Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by rglullis on Saturday January 08, 2022 @09:05AM (#29851779)
I'm guessing your question is rhetorical, but in case it isn't:

Repeat after me: "blockchain is only required if you want to solve a problem that deals with permissionless, trustless and distributed consensus".

- permissionless: no previous vetting/authentication/authorization of any participant. If you can a priori authenticate users, you can have a decentralized system with Paxos, and you can run a "decentralized" governance system based on simple "web of trust".

- trustless: no participant is assumed to be reliable/honest

- distributed: the network can suffer disconnections and partitions, but the overall system can still work.

If you can choose who will be allowed to define "consensus", you can use other BFT consensus solutions, so no blockchain is needed.

If you have a "cooperative" model, this assumes that you can trust the participants, so no blockchain is needed.

If your system can withstand network disconnections/partitions, no blockchain is needed.

Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by jhgb on Saturday January 08, 2022 @09:17AM (#29851864)
> - trustless: no participant is assumed to be reliable/honest

Shouldn't that be "at least one participant is assumed to be unreliable/dishonest"?

Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by oblio on Saturday January 08, 2022 @09:21AM (#29851886)
They're equivalent. If at least 1 participant is unreliable/dishonest and I don't know which one, the only logical reaction is to treat them all the same until I can determine the culpable one.
Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by anonymouse008 on Saturday January 08, 2022 @11:06AM (#29852920)
Perhaps, but it feels a bit like the Monty Hall paradox/game. If you know which ones are more truthful, then the odds aren't as bad as "everyone must be guilty until proven innocent."

"Innocent until proven guilty," the modus operandi of the US judicial system, at least in theory, is the design of a system that assumes trust and removes offenders.

Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by rglullis on Saturday January 08, 2022 @12:27PM (#29853839)
It's not about "justice" or "fairness". It's about "correctness". An "honest" agent with stale data is as unreliable as the "dishonest" one.

When dealing with Byzantine-style problems, there is no such thing of "who is more truthful?", just "what is the consensus that should be agreed on?"

Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by 8note on Saturday January 08, 2022 @01:57PM (#29854884)
Participant needs a better definition. I'd think block chain requires trusting every participant.

The private key must always be trusted for what the person behind it intends for it to do

Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by DarylZero on Saturday January 08, 2022 @08:24AM (#29851434)
The cooperative model requires people to coordinate on choosing the same human authority figure.

Blockchain only requires people to coordinate on choosing the same programmatic criteria for block validity (and then choosing the longest valid chain).

Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by bombcar on Saturday January 08, 2022 @08:53AM (#29851677)
Which practically ends up the same - see the Etherium fork/rollback.

One potential use maybe would be a blockchain that is openly run by a company (80+% of nodes or something) but if you also run a note it could continue after the company ceases to be.

There are other ways to do that but it might almost be a reasonable use case.

Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by DarylZero on Saturday January 08, 2022 @08:55AM (#29851693)
You can point to that event but it's actually not enough to establish that it "practically ends up the same."
Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by stransky on Saturday January 08, 2022 @12:49PM (#29854132)
You can ignore the event, but the trust we’re to put in the blockchain is based on a promise that such an event can’t happen, but it did.
Re:In Response to My first impressions of Web3 by DarylZero on Saturday January 08, 2022 @08:08PM (#29858662)
Not really. The old chain even still exists.

Also, Ethereum is different from a real blockchain.