News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by velcrohacker on Thursday January 06, 2022 @03:52PM (#29829960)
The actual law says that all cars after a certain date should have a system that can:

"passively monitor the performance of a driver of a motor vehicle to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired; and prevent or limit motor vehicle operation if an impairment is detected"

There is an OR for detecting high blood alcohol level.

There are a few years to get input, come up with preliminary rules, get more input, finalize the rules and give time for manufacturers to implement them.

This could save 10,000 lives per year and tens of billions of dollars per year.

The law says "prevent or limit operation". That is pretty broad.

If it is a breathalyzer, or a speed limiter when you are swerving over a 2 minute period, I am fine with that.

If it shuts you down for going over the speed limit for 10 seconds, or make an emergency maneuver, then I am not so happy. But that is why we have a representative form of government, and input on regulations.

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by dublin on Thursday January 06, 2022 @06:01PM (#29831808)
In many rural parts of the country (say, Texas, New Mexico, or Arizona, where towns are quite scarce, roads are flat and straight, and there's nothing to hit in between), even grandmotherly drivers regularly exceed 100 MPH just to get there in a reasonable time. I don't want any cars monitoring drivers for conformance to silly laws. The fact that it took us a decade to kill the silly and counterproductive nationally-mandated 55-MPH speed limit should act as proff that the government frequently gets these things wrong. It's important that people have the ability to simply not comply, rather than having their technology force them into it.

If they actually do this, I'm predicting a run on old pre-controlled cars and trucks, and a thriving black market in circumvention technologies!

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by Broken_Hippo on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:20PM (#29830354)
"But that is why we have a representative form of government, and input on regulations."

Unless, you know, your representative doesn't listen to you. Or you've had a felony. Or you are 17. Or you live overseas. Or you are an immigrant (Some places allow immigrants to vote in local elections).

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by jevoten on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:29PM (#29830487)
Immigrants can vote in their home countries, so they do have input. A nation is not obligated to give you democratic power over itself, just because they let* you visit. You may as well complain you don't have democratic input if you're a US citizen and can't vote in Mexican elections.

*Or, increasingly, they did not let you visit, but your co-ethnics in border states are impeding immigration enforcement so that you can stay regardless.

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by Broken_Hippo on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:54PM (#29830834)
Are you sure immigrants can all vote in their home countries if they don't live there?

I am American, and can vote in local elections in Norway because I've lived here, legally, at least 3 years. This isn't uncommon, and I find it fair since these are the things that impact me the most. I cannot vote in national elections. Also fair. On the other hand, the American voting forms for me make sure to ask if I ever intend on living there again. I have limited voting in the US, and I sure as heck don't expect any politician to do anything for me unless it'd look good for propaganda.

This is all besides the point: the original post was talking about folks that cannot participate in the democracy they live in.

I'm not even sure what you were trying to say with the last comment. Could you please explain it?

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by jevoten on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:02PM (#29830939)
What is there to explain? It's common knowledge that states with large immigrant populations demand of their representatives to hinder federal immigration law. Those representatives listened, and have passed laws to that effect:

https://www.fairus.org/issue/sanctuary-policies/do-you-live-...

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by Broken_Hippo on Friday January 07, 2022 @07:05AM (#29838122)
Do you have a source that isn't an anti-immigration organization founded by a white supremacist? [1] Preferably something fairly mainstream and not so biased? And to be fair, I've not clicked because I don't really want to support the organization with clicks.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigr...

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by jevoten on Friday January 07, 2022 @11:07AM (#29840744)
Wikipedia also has a list of sanctuary states and cities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city#United_States

As for being anti-immigration, do you also dismiss all pro-immigration organizations (such as the SPLC) as biased?

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by 8note on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:01PM (#29830923)
They're losing out by not letting people who live there vote.

People have useful input about their communities, regardless of their citizenship

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by Accujack on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:21PM (#29830377)
>"passively monitor the performance of a driver of a motor vehicle to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired; and prevent or limit motor vehicle operation if an impairment is detected"

The second part of this is straightforward but can be disabled by the car's owner. The first part may well be completely impossible.

We can't even instruct humans in how to definitively determine impairment except in limited circumstances, and even then it's only a diagnostic test that has to be confirmed by an invasive medical test.

I don't like this law at all or how it made its way into the bill so quietly... but in reality this isn't going to happen in practical terms for a few decades, because it's going to take that long to develop an AI that can do this.

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by jrsj on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:08PM (#29830181)
Why would I ever willingly buy a vehicle that I’m not fully in control of and that can force me to pull over whenever it wants? False positives are an inevitability; the best you can do is make them infrequent. Still, I would prefer to not have the system in my vehicle since I don’t drink and am at no risk of driving drunk.
Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by ohazi on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:38PM (#29830621)
It doesn't matter, because you won't be given a choice.

If you need a car, eventually these will be the only options available. Tampering with or removing these misfeatures will eventually be classified as a felony, and suspicion that you may have done so will eventually be used to justify violence against you from the police.

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by ryukoposting on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:15PM (#29831145)
> Why would I ever willingly buy a vehicle that I’m not fully in control of and that can force me to pull over whenever it wants?

I drive a 20-year-old car because I can't stand the tiny windows, high hoods, giant A-pillars, and high seating positions on new cars. Modern safety regulations mean that I can't buy a new car with my preferred seating position and good forward visibility.

The bad news is, time exists. My car is 22 years old, but in 10 years it'll be 32 years old. All the other sedans with good forward visibility will be 30+ years old, too. Old cars get rusty and dry-rotted, and eventually they get scrapped.

The government doesn't need to force you into a car that takes away your privacy and agency- time will do the job for them.

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by bleuchase on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:32PM (#29831395)
Read the 10th amendment to the constitution and try again. Government has no business dictating the conditions under which personal property can be used.
Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by colejohnson66 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @06:16PM (#29832010)
Except they already do. Seatbelts for starters. Driving is not a right in the US, but a privilege - it’s why you need a license to operate one.
Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by bleuchase on Saturday January 08, 2022 @05:32PM (#29857176)
> Except they already do.

Using that logic you support slave labor and genital mutilation. Because people already do it, right?

> Seatbelts for starters.

There are no federal seatbelt laws. Because they would likely be unconstitutional. States get to decide on their own. Only part of the discussion.

> Driving is not a right in the US, but a privilege - it’s why you need a license to operate one.

Supreme Court disagrees https://wearechange.org/u-s-supreme-court-says-no-license-ne...

Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by water8 on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:11PM (#29830213)
How many lives would surrendering all our freedoms save?
Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by yongjik on Thursday January 06, 2022 @04:14PM (#29830264)
As many lives as (gasp) using hyperboles would, as they slide down a slippery slope.
Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by rytcio on Friday January 07, 2022 @12:24PM (#29841848)
Well the covid lockdowns showed us that
Re:New Law Will Install Kill Switches in All New Cars by inkeddeveloper on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:07PM (#29834321)
I’m not happy with any of it. The government doesn’t need that much power. It’s insane that this is even a discussion.