> One of the reasons the US is a decent place to live compared to other countries is because we actually prosecute frauds and criminals here. Let's start seeing some other countries around the world start doing this, like India, Russia, and China.

I'm really not sure fraud is the biggest issue plaguing these countries... corruption is definitely an issue (though the US has in some cases legalized it into lobbying and PACs and the like). It's great that people doing scummy things are held accountable, but are the Sa cklers of Purdue P harma in prison? They've (unarguably) hurt and killed way more than Holmes did, but where's justice for that?

Nobody said the US system was perfect, just better (along with other developed countries that have rule of law).

I lived in a developing country for a while and the corruption can be maddening. You might agree to partner with someone to buy property, they take your money and cut you out. In corrupt countries, you might be entirely screwed - that person has too many connections and influence, nobody will touch them.

At least in countries with rule of law you could sue them. You might not win or be made whole, but at least there is a system that is somewhat dependable.

I agree, but also disagree. Look at the entire Epstein (and co.) trials - the rich and well connected are thoroughly protected across the world. Yes, it's more likely that you can hold people accountable but only to an extent. (Fwiw I'm from India so I'm familiar with the system, and I fully agree it's far from perfect)

How do you know the rich and well connect were protected? Do you know that other prosecutions aren't being planned?

How many wall st honchos went to jail for the subprime mortgage crash ?

We pick a sacrificial lamb once a decade to give the appearance of enforcement without addressing root causes.

See - 90s: Enron; 00s: Madoff; 10s: Holmes

Are you sure you want standards like Russia or China? The definition of "fraudulent people" there might just be...different

> Sending fraudulent people to jail for a long, long time is fundamental to running a healthy society

Really?! Interesting...

I agree, a functioning society needs good law and order, and some way to prosecute and bring criminals to justice.

But I am personally not convinced that sending someone "to jail for a long, long time" is the solution. How is that productive? I think we need to come up with better ways to serve justice than physically restricting otherwise smart or productive individuals to a room for decades on end. As soon as we are done with abolishing the death penalty, I would want us to start looking at abolishing this "decades long locking up" of folks. I don't have a good solution as I said, but I am convinced that this is not it.

There are many different philosophies of justice. Personally, I find "restorative justice" the most compelling, especially when tempered with the practicality of "preventive justice". But there is also "rehabilitative justice", along with "retributive justice" which is closest to revenge and thus will never lack for popular appeal.

> But I am personally not convinced that sending someone "to jail for a long, long time" is the solution. How is that productive?

At least for murder, one of the strongest predictors of whether a person will kill is if they've killed before. So prison is productive because it makes it more difficult (though not impossible) for a person to keep killing.

Trying to abolishing imperfect parts of society with no tested replacement solution is a dangerous game.

Some people are or became irredeemably antisocial and need to be kept away from society at large. Watch any liveleak video around the mexican cartel if you need a reminder of what evils people are truly capable of.

That being said, sure want to properly reintegrate everyone possible. But society understandably does not exactly welcome past offenders back with welcome arms. It is kind of hard to be productive again when few places will even consider hiring you. That isn't a stigma you can just wish away.

The point of sending them to jail for a long, long time is to protect society from them. Honest people don't deserve to live in a society filled with liars and cheats and conmen. Send them straight to hell

The length can be debated, but jail wastes the most priceless resource you have - time. That’s why it’s a punishment.

I think the question is whether punitive policies work in that way. I'm fairly comfortable saying this person getting locked up for a long time will probably not deter too many others from doing similar, at a personal level. I suppose it can be argued that it doesn't have to act as a deterrent to individuals at a high rate, but to groups? But... why aren't we then hearing about everyone else that enabled this? (That is, this just encourages more folks to make sure to have a scape goat.)

Or, do we really think it was down to just this one person's actions?

It's net productive because it removes the large negative productivity from fraud / other crimes from society.

It is the worst solution, aside from all of the others.