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Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by cheriot on Monday January 03, 2022 @01:39PM (#29784472)
This. The people with influence in both parties benefit from the status quo, enjoy their privilege, and only want things to change from a distance.
Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by aeternum on Monday January 03, 2022 @01:45PM (#29784550)
I'm not sure it's even necessary to blame politicians with influence.

Over the last few decades, we made home ownership a goal for the vast majority of the US populace. Now we expect those homeowners to vote against their own self-interest (to approve additional housing units/zoning).

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by cheriot on Monday January 03, 2022 @01:54PM (#29784679)
Agree that voting blocks with influence are a big part of it. I don't think it's rational self-interest, though.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29784347

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by aeternum on Monday January 03, 2022 @02:01PM (#29784775)
Upzoning might increase land value but often decreases property value. In general supply and demand still functions, by increasing supply the price should decrease.

What evidence is there that it is due to racism, classism and fear rather than rational self-interest?

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by bobthepanda on Monday January 03, 2022 @02:45PM (#29785536)
Who says the two are exclusive? You can go to any US planning meeting and find at least one person who alludes to the wrong type of person moving in resulting in loss of "neighborhood character".

Racist and classist concerns also influence property value. Blockbusting was a real estate practice that worked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbusting

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by cheriot on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:17PM (#29787043)
> Upzoning might increase land value but often decreases property value.

Is there an example of where that happened? A developer building an apartment building can pay more than an owner occupant.

The complaints from wealthy neighborhoods start with quality of life and degrade into questioning "what kind of people" will housing/transportation/amenities attract. I base this on listening to public meetings in SF / Bay Area so lots of local bias.

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by aeternum on Monday January 03, 2022 @06:07PM (#29788372)
Those selling the land to the developer profit but there are lots of examples in which home values around the new building decrease due to blocked views/shade/decreased privacy.

From a societal POV we should be building higher density and the drawbacks are worth it, but it is also in the rational self-interest of those building neighbors to vote against the new development.

NY has alleviated this somewhat by granting all existing landowners some air-rights that they can choose to sell to nearby highrises. Something like this might be the right way to go so that the nearby owners receive some recompense.

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by cheriot on Monday January 03, 2022 @07:10PM (#29789012)
The same laws that prevent mid size apartment buildings often prevent an existing home from being divided into a duplex or triplex. Why restrict the number of kitchens and exterior doors? For most single family exclusive neighborhoods, I don't think air rights are relevant. They don't want people with less money moving in.

It's the same motivation as Marin County, CA and the Georgetown neighborhood of DC refusing train stops to "keep the riff raff out". The exclusion is the point.

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by sokoloff on Monday January 03, 2022 @08:07PM (#29789681)
Traffic and parking concerns are legitimate gripes that I’ve heard (and I’m inclined to feel myself).

I don’t care who lives next to me, because my interactions with them are limited to kindly waves as we pass on the sidewalk.

If I couldn’t park my car anywhere near my house because the alternative timeline neighborhood had twice as many cars because it had twice as many kitchens and exterior doors, I’d be less satisfied with my neighborhood as compared to now where the parking is generally adequate except on street cleaning days. That’s got nothing whatsoever to do with who the other car owners are, how expensive the other cars are, or how rich they are.

This is also some of where “each new residential lot needs X feet of frontage and Y parking spaces per unit” zoning laws come from. It’s not just “keep the poors out” (although that may be a secondary motivation for some).

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by cheriot on Tuesday January 04, 2022 @12:10PM (#29797099)
The policies you suggest to protect parking are exactly what make traffic worse.

1. Less dense development creates suburban sprawl. This means new people live farther away from their jobs than existing residents.

2. Those new people have to drive more miles each day than existing residents. ie traffic congestion is super linear on population growth.

3. The intersections that become bottlenecks get worse every year.

Texas style sprawl spreads out the offices more so their average commute times go up every year at a slower rate (but they still go up). The only proven solution is to allow housing that's dense enough for public transit to work efficiently.

I'm not saying your motivations are based in classism, racism, and fear, but the people motivated enough to engage in the political process "protecting the suburbs" generally are. They're smart enough to educate themselves on these issues, see the consequences, and say, "yes, this is what I want".

Residential zoning creates geographic segregation between rich and poor. In America that also means the housing crisis is making racial segregation worse(https://belonging.berkeley.edu/roots-structural-racism). With the way public services are primarily administered at local level, once people are segregated then richer, whiter areas get the best schools, better parks, better maintained infrastructure, faster emergency response times, etc

Ironically, early residential zoning had explicitly bad intentions, but the impact was limited because there was so much land available to build on. 75 years later the consequences have escalated.

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by ahoy on Monday January 03, 2022 @02:44PM (#29785511)
I see this notion a lot, that density decreases home values. Yet home prices are at their highest in our densest cities. I just don't buy it.
Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by aeternum on Monday January 03, 2022 @03:08PM (#29785946)
Assuming you're right and increasing density somehow does not decrease home value/price in the densest cities, then how can up zoning/increasing density help alleviate the housing crisis?

It's like saying 'We want to change the zoning to make housing more affordable but don't worry it won't make housing more affordable'.

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by cheriot on Monday January 03, 2022 @04:19PM (#29787073)
Because relaxed zoning increases the price of land and decreases the price of interior space. In the most expensive cities, it's the value of land that's going up. The houses themselves are often the same structures that housed the working class in the 50s.
Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by watwut on Monday January 03, 2022 @02:59PM (#29785788)
Walkable neighborhoods tend to be expensive and those where jobs are.

If you just add apartment house to existing residential street, you achieve neither. Especially when zoning does not allows small shops to appear.

Re:Homelessness rises faster where rent exceeds a third of i... by 2deep5me on Monday January 03, 2022 @01:47PM (#29784581)
> This. Everything's equivalent. This.

This.