> Or "There is no such thing as god, but the world was clearly created". Oops again. Creation without a creator?

Is it possible to has have a creator but that creator not to be a god? For example, if we are living inside a simulation created by a software engineer, is that engineer our god?

I would say that if you believe that we are living inside a simulation created by a software engineer, then I am not certain whether you are theist or atheist, but leaning toward theist.

You’re missing the point. I don’t believe it one way or the other. It’s a hypothetical question meant to stimulate conversation about your “creator created” comment.

I mean, the rhetorical "you".

I'm not an atheist nor have I attempted to define what it means. So please know this is a genuine question.

Does your definition mean the rejection of all spiritual or supernatural beings requires one to become hold views inline with existential nihilism?

Suppose that without supernatural beings, life has no meaning or value (taking that to be "existential nihilism").

If it is revealed to such a world that there are in fact supernatural beings, how does that create meaning and value?

And how do those supernatural beings derive meaning and value; don't they need another level of meta-supernatural beings?

I want everyone to have meaning; I don't want there to be supernatural beings which are kind of slaves to provide me with meaning by their existence, but are themselves starved of meaning since they have nothing more supernatural than themselves to believe in.

One useful definition of meaning is the evolution of possibilities. A situation of no meaning is one which is a dead end in terms of possibilities.

If the universe dies in a heat death, then at that point there are no future possibilities distinct from the current state, and so there is no more meaning.

There might be no permanent meaning; no value that will endure forever, but people can be content with the temporary meaning, in which they enjoy new experiences and explore new possibilities in any endeavor.

Human lives end come to an end on a time scale vastly shorter than the death of the universe, yet people are able to find meaning.

OP here. I am an atheist with zero spiritual beliefs in the sense you are talking about. When I say "spiritual" I mean "dopamine-inducing", full stop. There is some cool stuff in math, science and in our crude attempts at morality that can be seen as "deep"/"spiritual" in its poetic purity, but this can be appreciated completely devoid of any belief in any kind of higher power. That is what I'm referring to.