News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by 323 on Sunday December 26, 2021 @09:51AM (#29692763)
A lot of times people who loudly yell "fuck the system" are also quietly using the system when it suits them, that's my point. Bansky is no "dismantle the capitalism" hero or whatever pedestal people have him on.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by kdmccormick on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:18AM (#29692999)
I hear you; the copyright case especially shows that he is no paragon of anti-capitalism. But I think it's worth maintaining that (1) some things are worse than other things and (2) motive matters and (3) imperfect people can still make good points.

I have never, ever felt like a piece of Banksy's art, or any original piece of visual artwork for that matter, is being shoved down my throat. They're quiet, static, relatively low in number, and easily avoidable & ignorable. I've never felt distracted or distressed because my local coffee shop has a new mural on their wall, and nobody has ever forced me to walk through an art museum in order to get to the grocery store. On the other hand, advertisements are loud, moving, insanely numerous, and totally non-optional. My local subway and subway stations are plastered in advertisements; if I want to transit anywhere, I must endure them.

Plus, the motives are different! Sure, Banksy or $artist_name likely want folks to find their art appealing and then compensate them somehow, via buying copies, commissioning new art, spreading their reputation, whatever. But advertisers do not care if you found their ad appealing; they just want you to buy their product. In fact, many ads are purposely obnoxious or abhorrent just because it's an effective way to bring your attention towards their product. How dystopian is that?

And yes, there's some irony in Banksy, as someone who occasionally benefits from copyright law, to be making this point. But that doesn't make him wrong! And, it'd be far more ironic if, I don't know, Sergey Brin or someone else who use hugely benefited from advertising and copyright law were making the point.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by cm2012 on Sunday December 26, 2021 @01:15PM (#29694836)
Multiply it times a billion. One Banksy is tolerable, a million people graffiting their opinions everywhere would be truly awful. Therefore what Banksy is doing is immoral.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by bigjimmyjohnson on Sunday December 26, 2021 @03:04PM (#29695812)
I disagree with the scale multiplier being a metric of morality. If one ice cream truck drives down my street, it puts me in a good mood even if I don't want to buy any ice cream from them. A continuous parade of ice cream trucks would be maddening. But that doesn't mean the ice cream truck driver who actually exists is behaving poorly.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by xphx on Sunday December 26, 2021 @02:49PM (#29695668)
One Jesus of Nazareth is tolerable, a million people preaching their opinions everywhere would be truly awful. Therefore what Jesus was doing is immoral.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by cm2012 on Sunday December 26, 2021 @06:01PM (#29697203)
A million people do preach opinions today, and did in Jesus' time, it's not horrible.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by jjulius on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:56AM (#29693409)
>I hear you; the copyright case especially shows that he is no paragon of anti-capitalism.

Does it, though? The linked TMZ article suggests the lawsuit was filed by the Los Angeles DA on behalf of the property owner whose property lost value because of the defacement. It doesn't appear that Banksy himself is involved in the lawsuit.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by kdmccormick on Sunday December 26, 2021 @12:06PM (#29694121)
The postcard copyright lawsuit, not the vandalism case.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by jjulius on Sunday December 26, 2021 @01:31PM (#29695006)
Ah, duh; forgive me for HN'ing while still waking up!
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by yawaworht1978 on Sunday December 26, 2021 @02:17PM (#29695377)
Do you believe he doesn't have some sort of affiliate manager or pr department managing media and social media presence?
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by b3morales on Sunday December 26, 2021 @01:37PM (#29695070)
It is similar to the logic of nations desiring peace but having an armed force for defense. If you are attacked and you refuse to engage in that system, disarming unilaterally, you may avoid violence, but at a loss of other values. Using the system judiciously can enable you to disengage from it in the longer term.

The tradeoffs for choosing this path will be different for different situations, but I don't think it's fair to say that taking advantage of rules you claim to hate is always clear-cut hypocrisy.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by WalterBright on Sunday December 26, 2021 @02:18PM (#29695384)
> It is similar to the logic of nations desiring peace but having an armed force for defense.

The whole point of having a strong defense force is to have peace. People don't start wars with a strong opponent, only a weak one.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by aspenmayer on Sunday December 26, 2021 @07:16PM (#29697682)
Proxy wars are a wrinkle in this logic whereby strong belligerents pick their battles so that they have plausible deniability; deniable wins and losses, deniable assets and capital, deniable aims and goals. Deceit and détente have a fractious relationship, but often serve complementary purposes - managing perception of reality and control of time and space via control of individuals and groups.

The personal is political. Weak sides challenge stronger opponents all the time, just usually not militarily. By situating yourself in opposition to power structures, you may reframe the debate and win it on its merits in the minds of the public, thus causing friction when status quo attempts to reassert itself.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by pleb_nz on Sunday December 26, 2021 @02:26PM (#29695453)
Defense forces in some places serve in other defense capacities outside of military conflict. I would say they are quite desirable even in places you mentioned
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by jrm4 on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:13AM (#29692953)
This argument, most of the time, is just bad and not smart. "If you hate capitalism, why do you use iPads? etc." It's dreck and it should stop because it's rarely constructive.

Sometimes it's a necessary tool. Sometimes people are experimenting. Sometimes people do actually sell out.

The problem with this argument is that it tries to shut down the above questions.

Details matter, and bad arguments like the above rarely help.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by runarberg on Sunday December 26, 2021 @11:43AM (#29693905)
A few counterpoints I’ve heard over the years include:

* The prevailing system will never be toppled by the conscious choice of the individual consumer.

* No one person has the power to overturn capitalism, no matter how persistent.

* There is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by jrm4 on Sunday December 26, 2021 @05:06PM (#29696830)
All these points are doing the stupid thing of presuming a clear controllable definition of capitalism; when in reality, no "ism" is a controllable unified entity.

People will always and forever make mutually beneficial trades, probably with money.

Now, will people also always have the opportunity to freely invest sums of money in imaginary chopped up pieces of a corporation without fear of financial liability should they cause a great deal of harm? Maybe not, because Gamestop is teaching us a lot of things.

Regardless of what happens, the dumb thing is presuming that these two things are both the exact same thing called "capitalism."

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by unethical_ban on Sunday December 26, 2021 @01:42PM (#29695105)
>There is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism.

That's such a useless statement that even were it true, it proves the parent's point. That moral judgement doesn't lead us closer to a world without capitalism. Go to any haven of anti-capitalism and ask for a link to the manual they have for getting from HERE to THERE. Not even a theory on how to dismantle what we have.

FWIW personally I think capitalism is the worst system, other than all the others. Rein it in, set principles in stone for what we expect and demand from our system, but markets shouldn't magically disappear because we've lost control once.