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Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by teekert on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @08:04AM (#29636958)
And then, when you "hit the jackpot", will you become a thief? Or will you just feel like you picked a lock, smile and pull the door back shut.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by Yizahi on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @08:28AM (#29637146)
As they say "the unstoppable law of unbreakable code". You will become the "rightful" owner of those tokens, unless they happen to belong to one of the Not-The-Owners of that particular blockchain. If they are, they will just fork a blockchain removing your money from your wallet. Vitalik and Co already did this with Ethereum after TheDAO contract execution as designed, because their own funds were affected.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by lupire on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:58AM (#29639298)
That only true if you remain anonymous or out of jurisdiction. Bitcoin has no EULA, local law applies to property.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by tata71 on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @12:56PM (#29652785)
See my earlier comment about this no longer being feasible.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by alex77456 on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @08:13AM (#29637031)
Average wallet won't have much in it. On the other hand writing an article with a semi proof of this would affect the bitcoin economy, whether deservedly or not.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by henvic on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @08:33AM (#29637189)
Why a thief? Bitcoin is a silly idea based on scarcity that doesn't exist. If someone generated the right numbers by chance and had luck, I wouldn't say they'd be doing anything wrong getting whatever is there. It's not the same as stealing data, and is not the same as hacking into a banking system. It's decentralized, and there isn't the concept of real scarcity. It's not even hacking.

https://henvic.dev/posts/bitcoin/

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by jmoreno94 on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @08:44AM (#29637287)
Because whether or not Bitcoin is silly, someone else paid their hard earned money for the coins, usually we say that makes someone the owner.

What do you usually call someone who takes a thing from its owner without permission?

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by henvic on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:02AM (#29638650)
Except that they aren't taking anything from anyone. It's information. They might be copying it. And you might argue things like privacy count, and I'd be willing to hear your reasoning, but this shouldn't be like magic.

Yeah, someone was silly to pay hard earned money in exchange from useless tokens. It was a gamble. If the useless tokens get stolen, I'm sorry to say, but whoever paid for BTC already lost their wealth in the first place when they converted whatever they had before for it.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by matheusmoreira on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:49AM (#29639191)
> Except that they aren't taking anything from anyone. It's information. They might be copying it.

It's true that information is infinitely abundant. However, unlike copyrighted works, private keys are not supposed to be shared. There should never be more than one copy of that number in the entire universe. If people can brute force keys by guessing, we've probably got bigger problems.

Obtaining that number without authorization is already a crime. Accessing computers illegally to exfiltrate data is already a crime. Breaking into a physical safe in order to obtain a paper key is already a crime.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by henvic on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:55AM (#29639268)
> Obtaining that number without authorization is already a crime. Accessing computers illegally to exfiltrate data is already a crime. Breaking into a physical safe in order to obtain a paper key is already a crime.

Sure thing. Hence, the importance of analyzing each case individually. If unauthorized computer access is used, sure thing a crime was committed. If someone created a wallet using a stupid wallet generator which used this website to "create" private keys, and someone else also had this silly idea, and someone deposited Bitcoin on a wallet created by this mean and and someone else took it, then no crime was committed.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by matheusmoreira on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @12:04PM (#29639384)
Yeah, I agree with that.

You don't even need the website. Cryptographic keys are just numbers. All data is just numbers. You can write simple code to generate all numbers from zero to infinity and it will eventually generate all cryptograhpic keys, all computer files, all copyrighted works, all hate speech, all child abuse material, everything that can possibly be represented as data.

The thing is the search space is so unfathomably large that such a program will never produce useful results. This is central to cryptography. If a private key is copied, it must have been done so illegally or accidentally. Any other option means the cryptography is defective.

This is the complete opposite of copyrighted works whose entire purpose is copying. The data is already known and they're hopelessly trying to regulate access to it.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by henvic on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @01:19PM (#29640321)
> If a private key is copied, it must have been done so illegally or accidentally. Any other option means the cryptography is defective.

I agree if you're talking about an evidence such as a high-quality video or even photo with everything leading us to believe it's legit. However, we can not be as confident if we're talking about a BTC token. While extremely unlikely, there might be faulty algorithm implementations, problems with the algorithm, etc., that might lead to this situation.

Very unlikely? Sure, but we've to give the benefit of the doubt.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by iosjunkie on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:26AM (#29638915)
The balance of your bank account is similarly “information”. But since everyone places value on that information, it’s valuable.

And these days, they way society is using traditional currency is become less tangible all the time. It’s is 100% possible to live life with never touching physical currency. Get paid via direct deposit, credit cards for your daily expenses, ACH your housing bill and credit card expenses. All just information flowing around.

Crypto is certainly overhyped and overvalued days, but it’s seems that at the core, crypto and modern banking are accomplishing the same thing: managing numbers(information) that people value.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by AstroDogCatcher on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:43AM (#29639109)
The key difference is that one of these things has the backing and approval of recognized governments who also control law enforcement, while the other is just some guys on the internet. I'm not so sure "finding a pre-existing bitcoin wallet I can claim, and doing so" is really any different than "generating hashes until the blockchain hands me a prize".
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by azth on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:50AM (#29639208)
That's not an argument. In any case, more and more governments are now recognizing crypto as something real, and are coming onboard. E.g. most recently Dubai.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by CamelRocketFish on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @01:01AM (#29646037)
Could you tell me how it’s changing in Dubai?
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by azth on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @12:13PM (#29652172)
Look up dubai crypto hub
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by CamelRocketFish on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @12:20PM (#29652263)
Thank you!
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by azth on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @04:17PM (#29655351)
Are you based there?
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by DarylZero on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @01:41AM (#29646218)
The same thing is true about a bank account. Your balance is just information. Cash is just useless tokens.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by azth on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:48AM (#29639183)
So if I do a bank transfer from your account to mine, I'm just "copying information".
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by henvic on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:56AM (#29639277)
No. You're accessing computer resources that you don't own and you aren't authorized to.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by azth on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @12:10PM (#29639453)
Same with private cryptocurrency keys. Otherwise, accessing non-public APIs with weak security by playing around with the URL would be legal.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by henvic on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @01:22PM (#29640356)
No. Invalid comparison. If you legitimately discover a cryptocurrency wallet private key by sheet lucky, and such cryptocurrency has no backing = is based in pure thin air, such as the case of Bitcoin, and there are public nodes which doesn't require you to abide by contracts that would forbid you to do so (which is supposedly all nodes), you're good to use that as you wish and it won't be a crime.

It's unethical to steal something tangible. Bitcoin has no tangibility whatsoever. You can't steal it.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by pests on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:13PM (#29644803)
What? From an engadget article:

---

Property is legally defined as 'Not only money and other tangible things of value, but also includes any intangible right considered as a source or element of income or wealth.'

That includes protectable ideas, digital files, financial instruments (like stocks and bonds, loans and credits), computer graphics, certain arrangements of words and quite a bit more.

---

What does tangibility mean to you? That allows you steal the examples in the second paragraph without legal reprecussions nor ethical dilemmas?

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by azth on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @04:48PM (#29642530)
Of course you can steal it, and it's unethical and should be punishable. Not sure what planet we live on here.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by smus on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @03:01PM (#29641420)
Bits on a server representing your account balance also have no tangibility
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by henvic on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @04:13PM (#29642166)
Jeez! So, are you telling me that cloud isn't someone's else computer? Damn it.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by smus on Thursday December 30, 2021 @09:50PM (#29744338)
hmm? Do you think the blockchain isn't also on a bunch of people's computers?
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by hellojesus on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @05:11PM (#29642741)
The problem with crypto is the ownership (edit: maybe I should say authorization to transact) is defined only by the private key.

You may get lucky with KYC, but who in their right mind would gen a collision only to get caught on the cash out?

You're not in control once someone has your pk unless you can mobilize a 51% attack to fix your problem.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by seanw444 on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:54AM (#29637917)
Borrowing it, obviously ;)
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by teekert on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:15AM (#29637544)
Printed money is also artificially scarce, so don't mind if I help myself to yours if do ever find your wallet.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by toolz on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:18AM (#29637568)
Bitcoin has a hard cap on how many will ever be in existence. If that's not the definition of real scarcity, then what is? Your implication that bitcoin is easily divided somehows means it isn't finite is simply wrong. Firstly it's not infinitely divisible, secondly things that _are_ infinitely divisible do not just become inflated simply because this property exists.

I find it rather revealing that so many anti-crypto blog posts offer no novel solutions, they only ramble on about how they know crypto isn't the solution. Seems rather uninspired to say you understand a problem domain but have no suggestions on how to solve the problem other than literally a solution that has already been tried at large scale and failed.

Sure, the gold standard in an alternate reality seems like a great idea, but we live in this reality where central powers were able to quite easily strip society away from this contract with barely any resistance.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by SgtBastard on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:23PM (#29644861)
Bitcoin has no hardcap. We agree that only 21m bitcoins will be mined into the existence as block rewards… until we don’t agree and change it.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by toolz on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:51PM (#29645011)
Show me a single node operator or developer that has stated they would consider ever raising the hard cap on bitcoin. Until then you're just making up FUD for the sake of being argumentative.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by greyhair on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:33AM (#29637675)
My father always said, if you find something, and it isn't yours, it belongs to someone else.

There are actual laws in the US that if you find money, you are supposed to report it to the authorities, and if no one reports losing the money in some fixed time (30 days?) then you keep it.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by swiftcoder on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:04AM (#29638669)
> There are actual laws in the US that if you find money

How lucky for everyone that the crypto folks have specifically attempted to evade all the laws that apply to real money

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by henvic on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:11AM (#29638754)
Get real. You're not getting anyone's property if you discover a private key by accident that that a distributed blockchain with no owner accepts to transfer a token in a virtual wallet like that. We're talking about something non-fungible and not scarce.

Bitcoin's supposedly scarcity is a joke that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by rafale on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:00AM (#29637427)
Causing demonstrable harm or damage by taking something is sufficient to be considered a thief.
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by satronaut on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:14AM (#29637541)
it's only silly because you ignored it and now feel envy for everyone who did their research before you and got in early
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by dinobones on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @02:35PM (#29641161)
Henrique Vicente (henvic, the person you are replying to) wrote what is basically a 5 page essay on how much he dislikes Bitcoin in 2021: https://henvic.dev/posts/bitcoin/

Basically parroting the same thing other people have been saying for years, absolutely no unique insight. He is so angry he missed the train, he just had to let it all out.

Don't worry Henrique, Bitcoin will go to $0 any day now!

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by satronaut on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @10:33PM (#29645332)
Lol, one of those "devs"
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by teekert on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @10:35AM (#29638346)
I think this is an underrated assessment, which I also always feel. The technological genie is out of the bottle, we all wish it was more energy efficient and hope it soon will be. But I think everybody deep down feels like they should have gotten some BTC in 2012 ;)

Tbh, I did get some early but I ordered sushi (thuisbezorgd.nl accepted btc) and raspberry pi stuff from Pi Hut for amounts that make me cry in retrospect. Still, I'm not that 10k BTC pizza guy so there's that.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by satronaut on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @10:40AM (#29638399)
exactly. Honestly, Bitcoin is very efficient with its energy usage. The economics encourage miners to find untapped energy sources, such as; methane gas that would otherwise be flared, excess hydro power when flood water demands a dam be open beyond capacity, solar farms during the peak of the day when they generate too much electricity. Hardly anybody plugs into the wall and buys electricity at market rate; it's too expensive
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by ornxka on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @10:34AM (#29638327)
>Bitcoin is a silly idea based on scarcity that doesn't exist.

If its scarcity isn't real, then why can't you conjure up an arbitrary number of bitcoins at will?

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by matheusmoreira on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:40AM (#29639075)
> If someone generated the right numbers by chance and had luck

The whole point of cryptography is nobody could possibly guess these numbers within the lifetime of the universe. If this assumption is somehow proven wrong, we've probably got bigger problems than one person losing money.

Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by TheFreim on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @09:48AM (#29637859)
While I don't agree with this like of reasoning I think a potential counter argument would be that in crypto currency ownership is determined by access to private keys and not other traditional means (essentially this argument says its not stealing because ownership is determined by access).
Re:All Bitcoin private keys are on this website by lupire on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:59AM (#29639316)
That only works if Bitcoin has a EULA or a law is passed.

Why wouldn't the same logic apply to any property?