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Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by baxtr on Monday December 20, 2021 @07:47AM (#29624278)
Maybe. Probably you're right.

What I am thinking right now: How will this affect me as European wanting to access US sites? There are already a bunch of sites that completely exclude European traffic on IP level.

It's great to have data privacy. I am totally for it. But it comes at a cost. People are not willing to talk about this cost, let alone take it into account when making a decision.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by alibarber on Monday December 20, 2021 @07:56AM (#29624367)
But isn't that a little bit like having your cake and eating it?

You get to live in a place that has (democratically) decided to put a particular cost on privacy. That cost being that you don't get to benefit from the cheap-ness of low-privacy offered in other places.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by baxtr on Monday December 20, 2021 @09:22AM (#29625217)
Yes, absolutely and I am aware that it is a trade-off. I am complaining that in discussions these trade-offs don't come up. I wish we would deliberately discuss trade-offs and make conscious decisions.
Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by jhgb on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:04AM (#29624444)
That sounds like you're against international trade in general, since most countries benefit from buying varying amounts of cheap stuff from other countries, where the rules (and conditions in general) are different. Somehow, for most people, that's not been a problem so far, though.
Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by mcv on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:39AM (#29624786)
This is actually a very important point: international trade can and does bypass many local regulations. For example, a lot of countries banned slavery and child labour, and yet import plenty of products created by slavery and child labour in other countries.

And we don't talk about this nearly enough. Everybody loves being able to buy super cheap clothes from sweatshops in Bangladesh. Everybody is still going to enjoy the football world championship in Qatar, played in stadiums built by what's effectively a form of slave labour.

We should definitely enforce our humanitarian values also through our trade and other agreements, otherwise they're meaningless.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by jhgb on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:55AM (#29624941)
I did say "for most people". Obviously there are people not comfortable with certain things in international trade.
Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by alibarber on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:20AM (#29624608)
I don't think it's really comparable - as the rules at play here are designed to protect the privacy of EU persons. There are plenty of things that I could buy from parts of the US that are considered unsafe in the EU for example, and so it is forbidden for me to engage in trade and get them. They would (theoretically) be confiscated at a border.

Despite some politicians best efforts and desires, there's no practical way to stop someone 'importing' privacy damaging web traffic, so the risk of non-compliance is being loaded onto foreign website operators. Therefore should a US website desire to follow EU laws, there would be no restriction on them being accessible to EU people.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by jhgb on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:24AM (#29624639)
But with international trade you're also eating your cake and having it, too. Doesn't necessarily mean it's the exactly identical cake, and I didn't even claim that. Just that eating your cake and having it too happens all the time.
Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by native_samples on Monday December 20, 2021 @09:33AM (#29625307)
It wasn't democratically decided. Cookie laws and GDPR originate with the EU, where all laws are created by the civil service.
Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by belorn on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:32AM (#29624711)
Of course there is a cost to market regulations. If you require proper waste management, some industries will have to pay an additional cost compared to just dumping the waste. Few companies in the world have ever said "we will continue to hurt the environment despite the costs". The political gamble with regulations is that there exist competition and through that there will be companies willing to follow the regulation in order to access the market and earn profits.

No matter how much privacy laws and regulations occurs within EU, it is unlikely that companies like google, apple, Microsoft or amazon will ever be willing to completely give up on the European market. There is simply too much money to give it up and have competitors take it. The websites that might be willing to exit the market is those that already have very little stakes to remain, like American news sites that focus on specific regions and demographics in the United States. For HN readers we tend to see those for time to time, but I doubt many other Europeans notice much of sites that already exclude European traffic.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by dave_sullivan on Monday December 20, 2021 @07:59AM (#29624399)
"I'm sorry, you can't access this site because we do shady stuff with your data and can't get away with it in the EU."

changes VPN location to US

"Ah, an American, welcome!"

Everyone should be using a VPN. Of course, "Which VPNs can you trust?" ends up being a valid question and I'm sure that landscape will continue to evolve for the foreseeable future.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by wiz21c on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:03AM (#29624429)
> Everyone should be using a VPN

Everyone who accepts the rule of US companies.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by leokennis on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:20AM (#29624611)
On a sidenote but regarding VPN's, I have never encountered anyone who could make an argument against choosing Mullvad.

If you have very specific needs, there might be something better than it. But no one ever got burned by choosing Mullvad.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by mcv on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:41AM (#29624802)
If everyone should use a VPN, everyone should also use a browser that obfuscates all this personal data.
Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by friendzis on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:17AM (#29624575)
You miss the point. Many USA based companies happily comply with EU regulations and offer their services. Some do not, because they do not want to comply with the regulation, which specifically forbids generating revenue from user data.

What you are complaining against is that some sites are built around selling user data and EU makes it hard to do so. The cost you are talking about is your inability to form certain contracts. Every regulation comes at certain cost. However, in this particular case the data protection and safeguards against selling of such data are the basis of regulation, not the consequence. GDPR is born to enforce this cost and this cost has been integral part of surrounding debate.

It is not people who are not willing to talk about this cost, but rather data broker lobbyists, who try to sweep this cost (data protection) under the rug who do not want to talk about this cost. Every time someone makes a counterpoint against broad statements protecting data broker interests (e.g. personalized-ad supported websites cannot exist profitably), that is the debate you are looking for.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by skinkestek on Monday December 20, 2021 @10:04AM (#29625647)
> which specifically forbids generating revenue from user data.

This is actually not true.

Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by baxtr on Monday December 20, 2021 @08:42AM (#29624809)
This is a misinterpretation of my comment. I am complaining that people make decision optimizing one KPI without considering collateral damages. I am criticizing the thought process leading to a decision. Not its outcome.
Re:New EU data blockage as German court would ban many cooki... by mafuy on Monday December 20, 2021 @10:05AM (#29625659)
I'm very pro-privacy, but I think you made a valid point. Just adding my opinion as a voice.

If I understand your example correctly, you refer purely to the point of view of a citizen, not a company. In that case, I think you are right. It has drawbacks for those citizens that also benefit from it. This was considered when the regulation was created, and some balance resulted.

I think the basic problem is that GDPR is one of those "global" laws - everyone has to follow it, everywhere. This is similar to what the US has (effectively) been doing for a while, perhaps the reason why it became similar. Either way, I consider it as wrong. No law should go beyond a country's border, unless a separate agreement between countries was made. From my point of view, it would suffice to force European companies to not use any services by those who do not comply.