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Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by kelseyfrog on Friday December 17, 2021 @01:33AM (#29588654)
The best thing you can do is organize your workplace. Job hopping allows businesses to eat the market at the edges and eventually squeeze those demands out of the labor pool.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by roenxi on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:05AM (#29588884)
Inflation doesn't - fundamentally - change the power balance between employers and employees. Market forces will cause the situation to find a fair market price. If job hopping can't get you better wages, then you probably don't have enough market power to resist if an employer flat-out cuts your pay.

Though to try and prevent misunderstandings - I do think inflation is bad for people who are paid wages. Market forces aren't perfect and "market price" is really a band of prices. Inflation pushes all workers to the low end of the band and means if anyone doesn't feel like negotiating they will be pushed in to a bad deal by default.

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by pabs3 on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:48AM (#29589141)
Late last century inflation and then wages keeping up with that inflation enabled a generation of folks to pay off their first mortgages quite quickly.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by roenxi on Friday December 17, 2021 @06:50AM (#29590967)
That is saying a lot less than you might think. Again, consider that the banks employ actuaries - they understand inflation a lot better than the people borrowing the money. They didn't let themselves be the losers here.

Inflation doesn't change the actual power balance between different actors, it does make the situation more complex and harder to keep up with. It doesn't create real wealth and it is not responsible for a wealth transfer to wage earners. The idea just lacks a mechanism - for the wealth to come from employers or businesses they have to be ignorant, altruistic and disinterested in money. That seems unlikely. Ditto most other actors. Changing value of money favours people who can continuously adjust to it which isn't a typical wage earner.

If a generation gets something for free, they got it from somewhere else. Who lost out here? Why did it need to be inflation to make that happen? If they didn't get it for free, it is unclear why inflation would be necessary in the story instead of incidental.

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by skywal_l on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:59AM (#29589221)
Absolutely but this also assumes a fairly "elastic" housing market able to absorb the demand. I am not sure the market is still able to do that with the NYMBYsm and malthusianism around new housing. In high tension area, the price could quickly increase faster than general inflation. I believe CPI does not include house prices.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by mellavora on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:31AM (#29589454)
Risk is that rising inflation raises mortgage rates which makes housing unaffordable. You might be able to continue paying your mortgage because you locked in a low rate, so not see this as a problem (free house!)-- but if for some reason you want or need to sell you might find it more financially challenging than anticipated.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by jnwatson on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:58AM (#29589631)
If you timed it right. Several of my friends’ parents had 18% APR mortgages.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by refurb on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:26AM (#29589413)
It allowed a very small slice of the population to do that. You basically had to take on a loan prior to the run up in interest rates. If you were born in 1950 you were fucked since rates had skyrocketed by the time you were 20.

Just like millennials love to claim boomers had it easy, it was a small slice of the pie that benefited.

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by Kiro on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:35AM (#29589053)
Look at Sweden. The collectively bargained pay increase was below inflation in all sectors.

You should unionize for many reasons but I wouldn't trust it as an efficient tool for pay negotiations.

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by tapland on Friday December 17, 2021 @02:54AM (#29589181)
I've never seen a pay increase above ~2% here in Sweden. Some union agreements allow larger (and lower) changes if the average increase is still the decided upon percentage.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by the-alt-one on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:04AM (#29589272)
Eh, I'm unionized and had a 13% pay raise. To be fair, they motivated that by saying that I should get up to speed with other engineer's raises instead of staying at a junior level (yes, I'm bragging).
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by MrPatan on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:14AM (#29589341)
What I'm reading here is the union kept your initial wages 13% below market
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by Ekaros on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:56AM (#29589613)
Unions in Nordic countries don't stop employers from paying more, they just set minimum pay level. And usually the normal raise level. They can always pay more and usually do with fields like software engineering.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by the-alt-one on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:42AM (#29589526)
Nah, I was straight out of uni so taken on as a junior by the company and then given a raise as they didn't consider me junior after having me work there for 8 months or so. The union is probably involved in standard pay levels, but not much more than that.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by skinkestek on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:27AM (#29589421)
Not unionized[1], but this is something I'd accuse unions of.

[1]: because no uninon ever manages to not try to meddle in international politics. Gandalf in LOTR had it right: he did not want power because he knew he would be tempted to try to do a lot of good things.

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by Jochim on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:10AM (#29592345)
This sounds like you're arguing workers should leave things to their "betters"...
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by skinkestek on Friday December 17, 2021 @12:18PM (#29595149)
I'm missing a "not" somewhere in there.

The way it stands the downvotes are deserved.

I'm personally not unionized but this is not something I would accuse the union of ;-)

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by cycomanic on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:25AM (#29589409)
? I've had a raise above 2% every year since I've come to Sweden in 2016. Our raises are determined on a scale based on performance. IIRC the average raise is negotiated by the union, but where on that scale you sit is determined by negotiation between you and your manager.

Edit: Sorry I might have misread your comment. I should say that our average increase was also above 2% several of those years.

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by furyg3 on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:30AM (#29589867)
Most of the collective bargaining agreements I've heard about here in the Netherlands involve an automatic inflation correction at the end of the year.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by dashboardmess on Friday December 17, 2021 @05:27AM (#29590295)
Actually, this is false. This used to be the case in the 70s, but after the Wassenaar Agreement[1], this was removed from nearly all collective bargaining agreements[2]. Some have salary grades that increase automatically by year of experience, but this isn’t the same, because it won’t increase the wages for people starting their career. In general, the stronger unions are able to negotiate salary raises above inflation[3], but this of course depends on the percentage of employees that actually join a union.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar_Agreement [2] https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/koopkrachtrepar... [3] I recently verified it for my own collective bargaining agreement, and on average, the raises were about 1% point higher than the inflation

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by lodovic on Friday December 17, 2021 @04:52AM (#29590020)
But regardless, the wages still keep slipping against inflation.
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by willcipriano on Friday December 17, 2021 @07:35AM (#29591322)
I've never gotten a raise from organizing my workforce but I've gotten many by hopping jobs. Can you tell me more about the workplaces you've organized? How did you start to go about it?
Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by 0xy on Sunday December 19, 2021 @01:53AM (#29612010)
Unions are overwhelmingly unpopular in tech, for good reason. Nobody wants to work with that incompetent unfireable employee who's protected, or getting paid the same as someone who produces half the results you do at the same level.

Unfortunately unions protect the incompetent and punish the successful (by refusing them the ability to negotiate). It's most pronounced in the heavy unionized industries like teaching and auto manufacturing.

There will always be developers who produce the results of 10, 100 or 500 developers single-handedly. Unions kneecap them, like they kneecap outstanding teachers by paying them the same as the teachers phoning it in every day.

Re:Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation by engineer_22 on Friday December 17, 2021 @03:15PM (#29597797)
Unions dont help new employees or high achievers. Unions help the ones with "the most time in".