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Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by panarky on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @10:55AM (#29552937)
> a little optimistic?

Sure, for this immediate wave [more transmissible less virulent] is better than [more transmissible more virulent].

But that's awfully myopic. What happens after that?

Since mutation rate is a function of the number of viral particles, and more transmission means many more hosts incubating many more particles, we should expect to see more new variants, faster.

So the probability just went up that we'll get a new wave of a new variant that's [more transmissible more virulent] and will kill 10x more people than alpha through omicron will.

That's a probability and not a certainty, but life is probabilistic and our risk level just went up a lot.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by marpstar on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:01AM (#29553024)
It's a miracle that the human race has survived this long, and COVID is clearly not driving us to extinction.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by adventured on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:28AM (#29553420)
> It's a miracle that the human race has survived this long

It's not a miracle or anything close to that level of implied bafflement (devoid of being able to explain it rationally). We're excellent survivors overall, and a lot more than that. We're very skilled at resource utilization, we're relatively talented at conceptual thinking, we're competent tool builders on a planet ripe for it, we possess the ability to plan far ahead and understand consequences numerous steps out, we have memory capabilities that are quite effective across most of our lifetimes, most of our species is not particularly violent and is generally good natured & friendly (only a very small fraction of the population will ever commit serious acts of violence), we function quite well together in groups/tribes/cities/nations (compounded, shared outcomes), and so on. It's not particularly complicated, despite the doomsayers that will never stop existing amongst us (their mentality says more about them than it does the human race).

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by dham on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:41AM (#29553639)
If the world wasn't so fat and it was 50 years ago, COVID probably would have been nothing, or the Hong Kong Flu.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by Sargos on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:44AM (#29553702)
The Spanish Flu was over a hundred years ago and hit the world the same way Covid did even though there was no McDonald's or obesity epidemic back then.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by dham on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:47AM (#29553759)
Yes but Spanish Flu was really really bad. Affected everyone. Covid is not the Spanish Flu or even the Flu. The flu kills children and is indiscriminate. 80% of hospitalizations and deaths from Covid are related to weight.

We should have prioritized health and Vitamin D in April 2020. At that time it was clear it was mainly affecting overweight people. Of course even almost 2 years later people still don't think that as a whole. They say comorbidities. Just say it like it is... it's mostly fat people. The news and society won't say that.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by peter422 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:02PM (#29554032)
And long covid? The two people I know who had longer term side effects were quite healthy.

Also by some definitions America is “mostly fat people” so your point is not that meaningful to begin with.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by dham on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:25PM (#29554342)
You mean post-viral syndrome? I mean yea it's a thing with viruses but it will go away eventually. I had a cold a few years ago and was sick for like 3 months. Some of long covid is mental, so there's that aspect. Some say vaccination can help but that might just play into the mental aspect.

The human mind can create symptoms very easily, especially if every day you get bombarded by social media and news about Covid.

> Also by some definitions America is “mostly fat people” so your point is not that meaningful to begin with

True, but I'm just saying this wouldn't have been an issue 30 - 50 years ago.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by kenjackson on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:34PM (#29554463)
> 80% of hospitalizations and deaths from Covid are related to weight.

Citation for this? I've never heard this at all.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by dham on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:53PM (#29554751)
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by kenjackson on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @01:03PM (#29554915)
OK, that says something slightly different. Because 42% of the US population is obese, even if Covid hospitalized completely at random you'd expect 42% of those admitted to be obese (not that obesity is the cause of 42% of admissions). They saw 50% admitted were obese. This implies that being obese increases the risk of hospitalization by ~20%.

But still useful data. Thanks.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by dham on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @06:04PM (#29559373)
I mean I think it says something very blunt. If you're not overweight you probably don't need 5 boosters and you can probably go about your day and play the odds. People still know how to play the odds right, they do it everyday? It's funny to me people are so scared of Covid when they're going to die of Heart Disease or Cancer.

There's just no nuance in any conversation related to Covid.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by kenjackson on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @09:54AM (#29566720)
I honestly don’t think you understand the data even after I explained it to you. Unfortunately this is why even basic headlines get misunderstood by the public.

Let me ask you a question. If weight had absolutely no impact on Covid then what expected percentage of Covid hospitalizations would be with overweight people?

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by wbsss4412 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:34PM (#29554452)
80% of hospitalizations and death globally or in the US specifically?

Globally that is one thing, but if that data point is in the US, then the baseline population is something like 60-70% overweight/obese to begin with. In which case, that elevation from baseline isn’t as significant as implied.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by ethbr0 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:50AM (#29553813)
There was a world war distracting resources.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by jessaustin on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @01:05PM (#29554947)
WWI actually caused the epidemic. The first cases appeared in Kansas, and many doughboys were infected at Fort Riley before carrying the illness to Europe. Woodrow Wilson, who lied about staying out of the war until the day after his reelection, may have been the USA president who harmed the world the most.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by native_samples on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @01:42PM (#29555487)
Spanish Flu definitely not the same severity as COVID, not even close.

Apparently though people's risk perceptions about COVID are wildly off base, by orders of magnitude.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimat...

40% of US Democrats think COVID hospitalization risk if you're unvaccinated is 50%! Fifty percent! The real answer is less than 1%. Other polls have shown similar things for fatality rates, like estimated 16% IFR on average in France. It really makes me realize why people act in such extreme ways, if that's what they think.

COVID is to a large extent a total failure of our societies ability to disseminate accurate information. Unfortunately this misinformation catastrophe is largely the work of the very same people who are constantly complaining about misinformation.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by kenjackson on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @05:10PM (#29558733)
How is it possible that anyone thinks 50% of all unvaccinated people have been hospitalized -- for just about anything! Seeing polls like this give me so little faith in our ability to make judgments as a country on anything non-trivial.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by panarky on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:08AM (#29553127)
Is it optimism to settle for any outcome that's better than extinction?
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by jodrellblank on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:19AM (#29553286)
Are you arguing the equivalent of "something increasing the chance of another world war is not a concern, because previous world wars clearly didn't drive humans to extinction"?
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by mikenew on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:49PM (#29554682)
Covid can't just mutate to become more and more transmissible off to infinity. The likelihood of a new variant being able to out compete Omicron is lower than a variant that can out compete Delta. There's also selection pressure towards milder disease, because someone with milder disease is more likely to be out in the world spreading it than they are to be quarantined at home.

The probability of a more transmissible, more virulent strain just went down, not up. It certainly isn't zero, but "more transmissible less virulent" is exactly how viruses tend to evolve. Mutations are a dice roll and it there's no way to be sure of anything, but being a little optimistic is completely appropriate.

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by panarky on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @08:13PM (#29560686)
> selection pressure

How does selection pressure work when the disease is spread by people with no symptoms?

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by rajin444 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:06AM (#29553099)
How do you reconcile this with the human race existing for so long? I guess you could make the argument global travel has changed things, but I’m not sure.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by lisper on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:28AM (#29553426)
> How do you reconcile this with the human race existing for so long?

For a disease to make us go extinct it would have to be highly transmissible and have a fatality rate of close to 100%. Anything less than that, and evolution will produce a generation of humans that are resistant to (or otherwise able to protect themselves from) the disease, and from there the population will replenish itself. The great plague had a fatality rate of 30% and it didn't even come close to threatening our existence as a specie. (In fact, the resulting redistribution of wealth arguably contributed to the advent of the renaissance.)

Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by ceejayoz on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:17AM (#29553261)
I mean, we can strive for more than just existence. The Black Death didn't wipe us out, but that doesn't mean it was fun to undergo.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by newbamboo on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:13AM (#29553212)
This. When omicron and delta mate and produce offspring, we’re going to be screwed. Deltas virulence + omicron transceptability = the Great Wave of summer 2022. It will be a good year for Pfizer investors and Russia.
Re:Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less... by ineedasername on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @12:30PM (#29554411)
When omicron and delta mate and produce offspring

While there can be recombinations of some similar viruses, that's not the common way that viruses propagate, and it's not mating. Point mutations are much more common. And if they do recombine there's no reason to (automatically) expect that the results will be the worst characteristics of both.