Re:China: Democracy That Works
by pkdpic on Sunday December 12, 2021 @12:50AM
(#29527474)
In all seriousness after getting addicted to reading Liu Cixin (who the PRC seems to fully support) Ive found myself occasionally wondering how much of what I think about China and it's oppressive surveillance state could possibly be ambient US propaganda or anti propaganda.
But then again the only friend I have that speaks Chinese and has visited China for work multiple times backs most of it up.
More of a thought experiment but getting hooked by clickable title here stirred it up again in my head.
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by natded on Sunday December 12, 2021 @02:04AM
(#29527720)
Most of the online discussion centered around China is just US domestic political projection using an imaginary China as a mirror, or as a counterfactual which doesn't exist, and then there's the obvious propaganda too.
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by dirtyid on Sunday December 12, 2021 @01:26AM
(#29527594)
"Whole-process democracy", i.e. democracy with Chinese characteristics was formulated at 4th plenum in 2019. Was wondering when it was going to be weaponized on international stage. I think it will go further to erode west's monopoly on defining democracy than most here would think. PRC tends to gain plurality support at UN for initiatives that undermines western discourse power.
Either way, plays well domestically. Latest democracy perception index: 73% of PRC Chinese thinks the country is democratic, 84% thinks democracy is important, which is... high even compared to actual democracies. Perceived Democratic Deficit gap of 11% means citizens think the government is largely living up to expectations.
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by hillcrestenigma on Sunday December 12, 2021 @01:06AM
(#29527528)
I just thought that this whitepaper from the Chinese government was interesting to share. I do recognise that the whitepaper is propaganda but not all my submissions have to reflect my thoughts and opinions.
Given that Hacker News occasionally has discussions on politics I believe that it is fitting to share, propaganda or not.
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by travisgriggs on Sunday December 12, 2021 @02:35AM
(#29527808)
I accept this. It's an interesting problem. We have but one bit (up/down) to express different thoughts about submissions, but it's not enough to express the different flavors of "downvote."
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by simonblack on Sunday December 12, 2021 @08:36PM
(#29535593)
Except that: "Who is it that gets to define what is propaganda and what isn't?"
The West is no more blameable or blameless than anybody else.
Many of the West's 'truths' have been later discovered to be 'lies'. Remember Saddam's WMDs? Remember those nasty Huns spiking Belgian babies with their bayonets? Remember the Vietnamese gunboats attacking a US destroyer in the 'Tonkin Gulf Incident"? Remember the Soviets sneakily placing nukes in Cuba, whereas the US would never, never have sneakily placed similar nukes in Turkey months and months long before that?
If you always listen only to one set of propaganda you'll never be able to see what the objective facts are likely to be. It's called 'Confirmation Bias". Be prepared to spend time looking at lots of other viewpoints. Most of them eventually cancel each other out, leaving a solid core of 'probable truth'.
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by celticninja on Thursday December 16, 2021 @05:27PM
(#29584859)
I can find evidence of my governments lies, many of their coverups fail. I don't assume I am dealing with an honest bunch of politicians. You can't do that in China. Pro govt propaganda in the West is usually pulled apart by an independent media, electoral safe guards also help identify wrongdoing. You cannot do that in China, there is one story, theirs, that's it. Question it and you get disappeared. The net effect is you cannot trust any news from China, unless that news was reported and then quickly scrubbed from the Chinese internet. In those case the story is almost certainly true.
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by greenyoda on Sunday December 12, 2021 @01:00AM
(#29527508)
Nobody can downvote articles on HN. However, if an article is off-topic or otherwise violates site guidelines, you can flag it. I don't think this article should be flagged however, since it's a rare glimpse into how the Chinese Communist Party tries to influence world opinion (although I doubt many could be convinced that China is a democracy).
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by baash05 on Sunday December 12, 2021 @03:10AM
(#29527949)
Off topic?
I just read an article about Sesame Street, and followed it up with an article about tornados, followed by a video of "Planes I see from my front yard." I'm not sure what topic HN really falls under.
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by seanmcdirmid on Sunday December 12, 2021 @01:54AM
(#29527691)
Imagine if Republicans got to vet and affirm any Democrats who would serve in congress, how much power do you think the Democrats would have? Regardless, it’s not like the NPC has much power anyways, they basically just rubber stamp whatever the politburo decides on.
Also paradoxically, given that the NPC has a quota for non-CPC members, it is often easier to get a seat being a non communist than a communist.
Re:China: Democracy That Works
by natded on Sunday December 12, 2021 @02:11AM
(#29527737)
This is much more fair than the government and the so-called independent media doing it through back-channels, no? I personally would prefer if my government named the office that controls national broadcasting as the "The Department of Information" or better yet, "The Department of State Propaganda"
But then again the only friend I have that speaks Chinese and has visited China for work multiple times backs most of it up.
More of a thought experiment but getting hooked by clickable title here stirred it up again in my head.
Either way, plays well domestically. Latest democracy perception index: 73% of PRC Chinese thinks the country is democratic, 84% thinks democracy is important, which is... high even compared to actual democracies. Perceived Democratic Deficit gap of 11% means citizens think the government is largely living up to expectations.
Will there be a point in my karma life when I can downvote a submission like this?
Given that Hacker News occasionally has discussions on politics I believe that it is fitting to share, propaganda or not.
The West is no more blameable or blameless than anybody else.
Many of the West's 'truths' have been later discovered to be 'lies'. Remember Saddam's WMDs? Remember those nasty Huns spiking Belgian babies with their bayonets? Remember the Vietnamese gunboats attacking a US destroyer in the 'Tonkin Gulf Incident"? Remember the Soviets sneakily placing nukes in Cuba, whereas the US would never, never have sneakily placed similar nukes in Turkey months and months long before that?
If you always listen only to one set of propaganda you'll never be able to see what the objective facts are likely to be. It's called 'Confirmation Bias". Be prepared to spend time looking at lots of other viewpoints. Most of them eventually cancel each other out, leaving a solid core of 'probable truth'.
ALL news sources are biased. If you want to reject all propaganda, that's simple. Just don't watch, look or listen to any news at all.
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TIL the CCP has (only?) about 70% of the seats [1]. I wonder what power or influence the other members have.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_C...
Also paradoxically, given that the NPC has a quota for non-CPC members, it is often easier to get a seat being a non communist than a communist.
> The State Council Information Office of the People's Republic of China
So literally the propaganda office lol
Some interesting links:
> https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1468064220843425796
> https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1469331084550852615
> https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/146832775301131879...
So it shouldn't be flagged. It would be a shame if it didn't get wider circulation, in fact.