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Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ceejayoz on Friday December 10, 2021 @09:54AM (#29510551)
> I no longer hold the view that our media deserves the first amendment protection that it does.

That, uh, might be a bit of an overcorrection.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by mercy_dude on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:09AM (#29510742)
Well can you elaborate why you think it is? Because the way I see it, it gives unwavering and constitutionally guaranteed way for billionaires to control the narratives - in addition to the power they already have been wielding through owning politicians using lobbyists and having protection through section 230 in all the stakes they own in the social media companies.

That’s what has been happening in the media space - Murdochs, Turners and Bezos now own vast sum of media sphere. And social medias just use them as proxy for “fact checks”.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ceejayoz on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:16AM (#29510838)
> Well can you elaborate why you think it is?

Because "we'll revoke your First Amendment rights if we don't like how you're using them" is a very big step on a very steep and very slippery slope.

Assange's defense is likely to revolve around the First Amendment. Weakening it would hurt him, even.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by mercy_dude on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:33AM (#29511050)
My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives. I am not speaking of first amendment of individuals which I think is also under attack by the same group of people, look how the mainstream media would love to cancel certain people they don’t like.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ceejayoz on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:37AM (#29511101)
The idea that people who lived in a time of tarring-and-feathering people couldn't anticipate cancel culture is a bit silly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Brown_(loyalist)

> Brown requested the liberty to hold his own opinions, saying that he could "never enter into an Engagement to take up arms against the Country which gave him being", and finally met their demands with pistol and sword. The crowd seized him and struck him with the butt of a musket, fracturing his skull. Taken prisoner, he was tied to a tree where he was roasted by fire and scalped before being tarred and feathered. Brown was then carted through a number of nearby settlements and forced to verbally pledge himself to the Patriot cause before being released. This mistreatment resulted in the loss of two toes and lifelong headaches.

Cancelling someone is also known as freedom of association.

edit: Media stirring shit up was a thing pre-Revolution, too, including at least two Founding Fathers participating themselves! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre#Media_battle

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by njarboe on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:34PM (#29514443)
What I find inspiring about the Boston massacre is that founding father, John Adams, defended the British soldiers involved in it and doing so did not prevent him from becoming president in the future. The values of the electorate were quite a bit different in those days and really are knowing about and emulating the better parts.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by kodah on Saturday December 11, 2021 @01:55AM (#29519056)
> Cancelling someone is also known as freedom of association

Personally, I don't care that it's age old. It's still not okay, and I don't care whether it's better or worse in modern times. I'm not even sure how far outside of propaganda some of this stuff falls, which ironically has the opposite reception from the public.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ceejayoz on Saturday December 11, 2021 @10:25AM (#29521473)
It's not OK to choose not to hang out with someone because you've heard they did something shitty?
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by kodah on Saturday December 11, 2021 @10:41AM (#29521604)
You can absolutely make a personal choice. The moment that you start tricking yourself into thinking that narrative manipulation, harassment, trolling, stalking, etc to get others to make that same personal choice are part of some high moral stance is what people get angry at cancel culture about. There is quite a distinction.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ceejayoz on Saturday December 11, 2021 @11:00AM (#29521791)
I can’t use my free speech to encourage someone to make the same choice?

Trying to conflate “cancel culture” with the already-illegal concepts of stalking and harassment is disingenuous. Trolling and “narrative manipulation” are pretty clear protected free expression.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by kodah on Saturday December 11, 2021 @11:07AM (#29521856)
I don't really get your point about free speech. That's a government protection. What I am talking about is the tendency of mobs to act as conduits of misinformation and abuse while projecting some form of morality en masse. It teeters on being more harmful than the thing they're mobbing about, typically.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by joshuamorton on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:08PM (#29512325)
Not to mention fairly regular extrajudicial lynchings. The rule of law is respected far more today than it was in the 1770s.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by dragonwriter on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:04PM (#29514037)
> My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives.

The founders largely were oligarchs, heirs of oligarchs, or married into the families of oligarchs,and certainly were not people to whom the idea of someone, or some group, within that class investing heavily in media to promote their political ideas would be surprising.

> look how the mainstream media would love to cancel certain people they don’t like.

Both before and after independence, political cancel culture in the early US involved much more forceful, and often permanent and total, cancellation than what is complained about today.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by munificent on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:38PM (#29513702)
> My point is the way founding fathers envisioned first amendment protection, they never foresaw the rise of a small billionaires oligarchs owning large stake of media and newspapers to promote views favouring their narratives.

That sounds to me like a problem with the existence of billionaire oligarchs and not a problem with the first amendment.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by 8note on Friday December 10, 2021 @01:56PM (#29513942)
the founding fathers were those oligarchs for their time
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by austhrow743 on Friday December 10, 2021 @04:51PM (#29515881)
That journalists and individuals have separate first amendment rights guaranteed by the constitution is a lie created by the same mainstream media you’ve lost faith in.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by fredstarr on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:16AM (#29510834)
Overcorrection? No it is not. They enjoy misleading and diverting attention away from the things that really matter. Just take a look at these lawsuits:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/a-court-ruled-rachel-maddow...

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case...

Look, these talking heads are simply well-paid entertainers - nothing more. All they spew is lies, propaganda and downplay the things that are really happening. Unfortunately they have a willing audience in the majority of Americans who cannot see through all the bullshit. I personally cannot recall when last I tuned in to any of the mainstream media outlets.

So I'd recommend that they be stripped of all of those protections and get the same punitive treatment that we, the People (we are the ones who pay taxes, BTW), get when we talk shit. Trust me, that'll make them sit up.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ceejayoz on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:17AM (#29510848)
> Look, these talking heads are simply well-paid entertainers - nothing more.

Entertainers have First Amendment rights, too.

> They enjoy misleading and diverting attention away from the things that really matter.

If I feel your argument does that, do I get to revoke your rights?

> So I'd recommend that they be stripped of all of those protections and get the same punitive treatment that we, the People (we are the ones who pay taxes, BTW), get when we talk shit.

We, the People, are similarly protected by the First Amendment. Weakening it would impact us, too.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by fredstarr on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:26PM (#29514339)
Wow! You actually took my shit serious! LOL. Of course, I'm just being overly dramatic and would never support censorship in any way, shape or form. If you can't sense the sarcasm in my comment, I don't know what else to say :)
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by ceejayoz on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:36PM (#29514471)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

There's no way to tell these days. I feel bad for The Onion, really. Parody is dead.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by Slow_Hand on Friday December 10, 2021 @05:41PM (#29516356)
Being sarcastic on the internet is generally a bad idea and creates confusion as to whether you truly believe what you’re saying. If you want to make a sarcastic point it’s best to be explicit about it, or else risk being taken seriously.

Nobody here knows what you actually believe. Without the benefit of that shared context, a sly vocal intonation, or a wink of the eye all we can do is take you at face value as someone who actually believes what you’re saying.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by krapp on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @07:00AM (#29564776)
Joke's on you - Hacker News is into that shit.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by mehdix on Saturday December 11, 2021 @12:44PM (#29522725)
Just add /s at the end and it would be a done thing.
Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by shadowgovt on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:20PM (#29512558)
Of course, the problem with removing First Amendment protections is you only know about these lawsuits because Business Insider and Glenn Greenwald enjoy First Amendment protections.

That having been said: the First Amendment is not absolute, and there are exceptions to the general principle that people are free to say what they feel (Assange, for example, could be tried on espionage if he's extradited). But in general, exceptions are carved with a jeweler's chisel, and only when extremely necessary and when there are no other possible remedies.

In this case, the sickness you've highlighted has several potential non-first-amendment remedies, including enforcing monopoly laws, passing new monopoly laws, and taxing billionaires at a rate that would make it difficult for them to keep the surplus cash-on-hand to buy 70% of the US's newspapers. And changing the market via law to find a new way to pay for news since the Internet era has completely ingested and digested their traditional advertising model.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by fredstarr on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:32PM (#29514422)
Y'all are really taking this shit serious! LMAO. I think my own First Amendment rights should be revoked, actually! LOL

Jokes aside, I'm against censorship. I think information should be available to all but maybe with caveats and accountability.

BTW, I agree with the proposed remedies. But - Who's gonna bell the cat though? It ain't going to be any of y'all's Senators, CongressPeople or the Executive Branch. And we all know for damn sure that it's never going to be the Supreme Court.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by shadowgovt on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:36PM (#29514467)
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

... emphasis on the last part.

Re:Julian Assange can be extradited to the US, court rules by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:31AM (#29511028)
There seems to be a push reject all news as of late. It's scary.