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Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by ts4z on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:00PM (#29491110)
Tesla sold 75kWh cars to people who bought 60kWh cars. Then, during the wildfires here in California, they remotely unlocked the extra 15 for people trying to get out of town. If you wanted to get access to what you had legal title to, well, that's an upcharge.
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by wiedehopf on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:42PM (#29491526)
With batteries it's a bit more complicated as LiIon degrades faster at higher charge levels / voltages. So you're trading longevity for extra capacity in that case.
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by Gigachad on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @07:02PM (#29492252)
IIRC they did sell people a software unlock for the other capacity which goes against the idea that it was designed to be like that.
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by CamperBob2 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:05PM (#29491750)
Not the same thing. In the event of a life- or property-threatening emergency, it's reasonable for the company to temporarily remove the charge cap.

The batteries are backed by a warranty, which in turn is part of the cost of the car. It makes perfect sense to derate the batteries in order to lower warranty costs. Of course, we can debate whether the consumer ever saw the benefit of those lower warranty costs, but the core idea is sound enough.

As for "legal title," you have "legal title" to whatever the sales contract promised. If access to full battery capacity at the expense of service life wasn't in the contract, then you're not entitled to it.

Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by nitrogen on Thursday December 09, 2021 @12:37PM (#29500408)
As for "legal title," you have "legal title" to whatever the sales contract promised. If access to full battery capacity at the expense of service life wasn't in the contract, then you're not entitled to it.

That's definitely not how physical property works.

Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by CamperBob2 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:40PM (#29503315)
Really? Educate me.

I mean, there are implicit guarantees that don't have to appear in the sales contract, such as the requirement that the car will meet the applicable pollution-control regulations and won't actively try to kill me, but that's obvious enough. Did you have something else in mind, particularly vis-a-vis the batteries?

Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by nitrogen on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:29PM (#29503877)
(Not a lawyer) Generally, at least in the US, when you own a physical object, you can do whatever you want with it that isn't explicitly illegal. This is at least partially represented in the first sale doctrine. For a car, you have a literal entitlement document showing that you own it. What you're not entitled to is any help from the manufacturer to do so, except that repairs can't void a warranty if those repairs didn't cause the problem being warrantied. With regard to batteries, there's no reason someone who owns a Tesla shouldn't be able to replace or upgrade the battery they own on the car they own.
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by CamperBob2 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @09:51PM (#29505904)
Sure, but what does that have to do with what happened here? No one tried to hack the battery management system. The company modified it as a goodwill gesture (and to ensure that it didn't cause a PR disaster by functioning as intended.)
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by nitrogen on Thursday December 09, 2021 @10:14PM (#29506019)
> > If you wanted to get access to what you had legal title to, well, that's an upcharge. > As for "legal title," you have "legal title" to whatever the sales contract promised.

You own the car. You own the battery. No sales contract changes that fact of ownership. They delivered a 75kwh battery into your possession. Since it's your battery, you should be able to use your battery however you want without having to pay Tesla. People are rightfully upset by a PR move that proves that the manufacturer is treating a car that was sold and delivered as if it still belongs to the manufacturer.

Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by amelius on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:22PM (#29491331)
Business practices should have their own book of law, which says what is and what isn't acceptable.
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by GuB-42 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:19PM (#29491882)
Why shouldn't it be acceptable?

You bought a 60 kWh car. If it performs as advertised, you not entitled for more, no matter what hardware is inside. And if you find a way to exploit the full capacity of the battery, you can, it's yours, but don't count on Tesla to support it.

I have no problem with market segmentation. It allows more people to have access to a product while protecting the margins of the manufacturer. Because, without margins, there is no product.

And in fact, I am happy when I am traveling and the student next to me paid half of what I paid, I could afford the higher price ticket in exchange for more convenience, so no problem for me, but if the student had to pay the same price as I did, he wouldn't have been able to travel at all. I was like him years ago, and our children will probably be too.

Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by amelius on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:45PM (#29492098)
The problem in this case is that you're dragging along 15kWh worth of battery weight, which is a waste of energy.
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by colejohnson66 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:52PM (#29492157)
Either way, the capacity lowers as time goes on. Your 60 kWh battery might become 50 in a few years. The extra 15 is supposedly a buffer against that.

It’s the same thing with spinning hard drives and SSDs. The reported capacity is almost always lower than the actual capacity. That allows dead blocks to be “replaced” without the user even knowing (“remapped sectors”). Could you imagine the PR disaster if your SSD lost visible capacity as time went on?

You do have a point about the weight. The cost of shipping an SSD with 0% overprovisioning and one with 25% is negligible; the ICs weigh just a few grams. However, a car that has to haul an extra 15 kWh of unusable capacity does use extra energy. I’d be curious how much is needed to haul those extra cells.

Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by sliken on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @10:29PM (#29493483)
Sure, but using 60kwh of a 75kwh battery lasts longer than a 60kwh battery would. Not to mention that Tesla's R&D to make a 60 kwh battery, an extra asmembly line (or one flexible enough to produce both), extra inventory, testing, maintenance manuals, etc all has costs as well.
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by yreg on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @07:28PM (#29492429)
Cars are often shipped with disabled seat heaters, CPUs are often shipped with disabled cores. As a customer I don't see why should I mind.

I understand in case of Tesla you don't like the idea of hauling those extra unused cells around. But you are buying a car model with a specific mass, acceleration and range. It makes no difference whether how exactly the producer fit into those parameters.

Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by OldManAndTheCpp on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:27PM (#29491384)
Isn't that just contract law?
Re:Intel updates mysterious ‘software-defined silicon’ code ... by amelius on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:38PM (#29491491)
The problem is that the law is too abstract and not sufficiently exhaustive to address all the disingenuous schemes used by businesses.