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Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by hardtke on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:53PM (#29467878)
Be careful interpreting this. Delta and now Omicron are more contagious than the original virus precisely because they have higher peak viral loads and shed more virus from infected patients. Hence, the virus in wastewater per infected individual has been changing along with the number of infected individuals.
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by jointpdf on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:08PM (#29468724)
But Delta has been the only game in town for a while now (>99% of cases since late August), so this recent rise in the wastewater viral levels shouldn’t be attributable to a change in the proportion of variants (TBD on Omicron?).

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportion...

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by itamarst on Monday December 06, 2021 @09:37PM (#29468574)
MA sequences 30% of PCR tests, and has so far found only a single Omicron case...
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by incongruity on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:08PM (#29468723)
Couldn’t that potentially be explained by the lag between infection and symptoms with many people being asymptomatic early on while still shedding virus at significant levels? If that’s theory is true, we should see many more tests and identifications of omicron in the coming week.
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by seoaeu on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:30PM (#29469071)
MA does massive amounts of surveillance testing of people who don’t have symptoms. So infections should be picked up by both wastewater testing and PCR tests at about the same time
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by fragmede on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:48PM (#29469159)
Specifically, Boston has a large number of biotech firms and colleges who have the equipment to do PCR testing, as well as the know how to run them.
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by Robotbeat on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:39PM (#29468857)
Still, I think it means we’re likely in the early/mid stages of the exponential curve. I saw estimate of ~5 day doubling time. Meaning that even if 3 weeks ago there were 100 people with Omicron in Boston, there are still only like 800 now. Takes another month or three for it to explode to a large case load.
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by mmatus on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @01:31PM (#29476338)
Lots of good points here! Viral loads and variants are important to keep in mind when interpreting wastewater data. That said, our current best guess is that the rising SARS-CoV-2 concentration in Boston wastewater reflects a real increase in cases. Delta has higher nasal shedding than other variants, but not necessarily higher fecal shedding--the ratio of wastewater concentrations to clinical cases seems pretty constant in our data over time (see our blog post on this topic here: https://biobotanalytics.medium.com/mass-vaccination-delta-an...) We know much less about omicron, but it's probably still only a small minority of cases. We're currently sequencing samples of Boston wastewater, so we'll know more about omicron levels in wastewater very soon!
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by twofornone on Monday December 06, 2021 @09:01PM (#29468348)
Has that been proven or are you just speculating? I don't think increased viral load/shedding is the only mechanism by which a virus becomes more contagious.
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by mlyle on Monday December 06, 2021 @09:18PM (#29468463)
Delta has been documented to result in higher viral loads and this is thought to be a factor behind the increased transmissibility.

I don't think anyone knows about the kinetics of Omicron yet. I think the increasing prevalence of Omicron may have a lot more to do with its ability to escape immunity from past infection and increased probability of vaccine breakthrough than any inherent higher transmissibility to those who are immunologically naive.

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by anonuser123456 on Monday December 06, 2021 @09:46PM (#29468627)
>Delta has been documented to result in higher viral loads and this is thought to be a factor behind the increased transmissibility.

has it ? I've seen this claim made over and over, w/out documentation.

I've seen documentation of higher nasal swab loads, but not higher systemic circulating virus. Higher upper respiratory loads (e.g. mucosal) would also lead to increased transmissibility, but not higher waste water levels.

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by mlyle on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:14PM (#29468736)
> has it ? I've seen this claim made over and over, w/out documentation.

Very early report on Delta, describing higher loads in oropharyngeal swabs: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.07.21260122v...

> I've seen documentation of higher nasal swab loads, but not higher systemic circulating virus.

You'll have almost no reports of "systemic circulating virus" load, because there's not really an accepted definition for how this measurement would be taken. Plasma concentrations don't appear to be particularly meaningful except in late stages of critical disease.

> higher waste water levels.

My understanding of the evidence is that fecal loads of Delta are higher than other variants, but not as elevated in comparison to how much throat and nose swabs are elevated. I.e. both statements appear true (higher loading overall, and even higher loading in upper respiratory tissue).

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by __blockcipher__ on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:41PM (#29468867)
> You'll have almost no reports of "systemic circulating virus" load, because there's not really an accepted definition for how this measurement would be taken.

Wait, what? This seems completely at odds with the literal definition of viral load per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_load:

> Viral load, also known as viral burden, is a numerical expression of the quantity of virus in a given volume of fluid, including biological and environmental specimens.

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by mlyle on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:49PM (#29469168)
> Viral load, also known as viral burden, is a numerical expression of the quantity of virus in a given volume of fluid

Yes, in a specific fluid. Grandparent doesn't like viral load data coming from upper respiratory swabs-- preferring some kind of "higher systemic load" number.

Well, there's no magical "real systemic" load. You can measure it in the nose; you can measure it (sometimes) in the bloodstream (but this is sporadic and small even in severe cases, though it has prognostic value in critical care). You can measure it in feces, etc.

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by shagie on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @12:11AM (#29469264)
There was an interesting article in NYT the other day - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/01/science/coron...

> To better understand the coronavirus’s journey from one person to another, a team of 50 scientists has for the first time created an atomic simulation of the coronavirus nestled in a tiny airborne drop of water.

> To create the model, the researchers needed one of the world’s biggest supercomputers to assemble 1.3 billion atoms and track all their movements down to less than a millionth of a second. This computational tour de force is offering an unprecedented glimpse at how the virus survives in the open air as it spreads to a new host.

And they look at things like how mucins, water, and calcium atoms interact with the proteins of the virus particle.

> This discovery may help explain how the Delta variant became so widespread. Delta’s spike proteins have a more positive charge than those on earlier forms of the coronavirus. As a result, mucins huddle more closely around them. That attraction could potentially make the mucins a better shield.

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by mlyle on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @02:29AM (#29469903)
Yah. Evolution is complicated.

Delta undoubtedly has many advantages, and disadvantages, over earlier variants that it outcompeted. That's why I said viral load is "a factor".

One thing that's interesting to me is how the selective pressures on pathogens change. Early on, adaptations that cause higher viral loads are often highly advantageous because they aid transmission-- this tends to be correlated with higher virulence, too. Later, as a smaller portion of the population is susceptible, and adaptations that are less virulent, have longer incubation periods, etc, can win.

It'll be interesting to learn about Omicron virulence and transmissibility. I wouldn't be surprised if it's less, like early reports hint at. However, disentangling this from partial immune escape, etc, is hard.

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by tyrfing on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @01:39AM (#29469636)
The current situation is a handful of confirmed Omicron cases in the US, and a (useless) travel ban to prevent additional cases. Either this data is noise, or that genie isn't just out of the bottle, but ransacked the house while we're arguing over the cork. With a doubling time around 3-5 days and very effective spread to both previously infected and vaccinated, the exact position on that curve is a difference of days.

If we're lucky, it's a mild strain - this doesn't have strong evidence yet. If we're unlucky, and it's similar to other strains, we have around a month before things get very bad indeed.

Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by ripper1138 on Monday December 06, 2021 @08:15PM (#29468045)
Good point. Also keep in mind this is just one location. Would be really cool to see this measured by most cities.
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by jvmiert on Monday December 06, 2021 @10:10PM (#29468729)
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by systemBuilder on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:27PM (#29469061)
Wow that is SICK! I think if I had to read viral particles in wastewater for many different diseases at a sewage treatment plant I would go crazy and move to the countryside!
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by yread on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @02:57AM (#29470045)
There is no "countryside" in the Netherlands
Re:Amount of Covid found in the wastewater in Boston by OneTimePetes on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @07:11AM (#29471564)
You can move water-sides though, buy a houseboat and camp out on the lakes..