News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by tyingq on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:37AM (#29461906)
This is what seems right to me. It's not the virtual nature, it's the lazy mass group layoff that's objectionable and disrespectful.

If you're being laid off, you probably have a lot of questions. A 1:1 meeting would allow for that.

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by gambiting on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:46AM (#29462065)
The problem is that 900 people is a lot of people. Imagine all managers scheduling meetings with their reports to tell them, then the managers themselves are probably being let go, in the meantime it would create A LOT of stress not knowing whether you will be called in for a meeting or not, just sitting there seeing people being let go around you 1 by 1. The whole process would take a week just to have a proper meeting and give everyone decent time to process and ask questions.

In a way, I think this is better - it's quicker, everyone knows where they stand, there is no uncertainty about it.

However, I do agree that

1) the communication from the CEO could be better

2) people should be given an opportunity to then still ask questions, either for HR or their managers(if still employed).

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by Johnny555 on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:33PM (#29462802)
Imagine all managers scheduling meetings with their reports to tell them

I was in a company that had a mass layoff (well, it was getting bought for IP/assets and a few employees). I found out about it from my boss one morning, knew I was getting laid off, then scheduled meetings with my direct reports later that day. It was pretty easy to find time to schedule the meetings since it's not like anyone had any project work to do any more.

By mid day the cat was pretty much out of the bag and everyone knew what was happening, but I and other managers still held the individual meetings.

Managed to hire most of my my former direct reports at my new job.

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by cortesoft on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:58AM (#29462273)
Companies do massive layoffs all the time without large meetings to tell everyone at the meeting they are fired. It isn't that hard.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by seabird on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:08PM (#29462402)
It can be done and it isn't hard for the company. I'm going to float a guess that you haven't experienced a mass layoff where they pop your coworkers one by one over the course of the workday. It's very painful and takes a very long time. Anybody who has been around for one would almost certainly take the mass layoff over 8+ hours of constant worry just to lose your job at the end anyway.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by cortesoft on Monday December 06, 2021 @02:13PM (#29464220)
I have been around for a number of mass layoffs, and you are right it sucked. It will always suck, there is no way around it.

It doesn’t have to take all day. Managers meet with the people being laid off in the morning. If it is too large to do 1on1, you can do small meetings with a few people and their manager.

Point is that it should come from your direct manager (or the closest direct manager in the chain if managers are also being laid off).

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by DnDGrognard on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:16PM (#29462543)
For large US companies there are rules (Warn Act) about how you make people redundant
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by tshaddox on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:22PM (#29462632)
> Imagine all managers scheduling meetings with their reports to tell them, then the managers themselves are probably being let go…

Yeah, I imagined all of this and it seemed like exactly what a competent company would do.

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by literallyWTF on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:22PM (#29462635)
Leave it to HN to argue that having a shitty mass layoff through Zoom is better than having a 1 to 1
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by gambiting on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:49PM (#29463057)
It's absolutely not better than having a 1-1, and I never said it was. But I will argue that it's better than waiting a week to have your scheduled "mystery call" with your manager while you see everyone around you being laid off left and right. It would have been stressful as hell, and in that sense yes, finding out in a single call with the CEO is "better". I'd still like to have a 1-1 with my manager to discuss either way.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by PeterisP on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:13PM (#29462484)
Unlike when someone is being fired individually, in mass layoffs there simply are no individual answers to questions - any questions are either relevant to everyone and should be communicated in a mass manner, or they are questions which are not answerable at all. Any proper questions that have a reasonable answer would absolutely deserve that answer to be made to everyone else in the exact same manner, even if they don't think to ask that question.

Any questions about "why" are reduced to essentially "your individual job performance and role does not matter, it's just that this business unit ceases to exist as of yyyy-dd-mm". Any questions about "what next" are answered by "Here's the details on the severance conditions for you - the exact same as for the other 899 people".

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by baby on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:44AM (#29462031)
Disagree. Why make the HR team go through 900 individual calls? At the same time this will leak and other employees will learn that they might get fired before they get their own call. Recipe for disaster. Just rip off the band aid.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by bumby on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:56AM (#29462234)
I think it boils down to leadership is really about managing relationships. This method is just too impersonal for most people, just like breaking off a romantic relationship via text is generally considered weak and frowned upon.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by throwanem on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:33PM (#29462798)
I suspect it is rare, though I suppose not impossible, that anyone needs to break off 900 romantic relationships at once.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by bumby on Monday December 06, 2021 @01:18PM (#29463501)
I understand your point, but if there aren’t subordinate leaders below the CEO who can perform this function, I suspect they have organizational structure problems.

I believe a good approach would be to have those first line leaders (who actually have that relationship built with their subordinates) break the bad news and then the CEO speak to everybody and own the decision.

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by Spooky23 on Monday December 06, 2021 @08:41PM (#29468225)
Why would you need to text?

Surely after seeing your relationship status change on Facebook, they would understand?

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by johndubchak on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:19PM (#29462591)
Wait, you're not supposed to break up over text? Since when?!?!?!
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by recursive on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:25PM (#29462687)
I'm almost certain this is a joke. Right?
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by johndubchak on Tuesday December 07, 2021 @07:25PM (#29479984)
Yes. My apologies, I thought it seemed obvious.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by buitreVirtual on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:51AM (#29462143)
Each manager would have to make that call to their laid-off reports, or the next manager in line if the manager is being laid off too. Maybe after that it would be ok for HR to have larger meetings with those affected to sort out the details.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by usrusr on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:16PM (#29462541)
“or the next manager in line if the manager is being laid off too“

What if the whole chains are axed? Recursive "or the next manager" could easily lead to exactly what happened: a CEO lucky to have a pandemic voiding all expectations to do something like that in person.

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by time_to_smile on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:53PM (#29463127)
> Why make the HR team go through 900 individual calls?

The entire reason companies have hierarchical power structures (in theory) at least, is so that information can be passed along with the log of the company size.

Having every manager have 10 min call with each direct report, or in the worse case a team meeting, would be much more human and could accomplish the task of notification in roughly the same time window as an all hands firing.

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by baby on Monday December 06, 2021 @07:30PM (#29467682)
You got it right up until the point where you think it’s to pass information from top to down. It’s not. It’s to pass information from the bottom up.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by tyingq on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:47AM (#29462086)
Presumably the 900 people already had leaders that could talk to them.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by gruez on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:03PM (#29462348)
> It's not the virtual nature, it's the lazy mass group layoff that's objectionable and disrespectful.

Is it? I can plausibly make the other argument that not having to do it yourself and offloading it to middle managers/HR is also "objectionable and disrespectful".

Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by tyingq on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:08PM (#29462399)
I've been on both sides, but yes, just my opinion. On the other hand, this is newsworthy because it's unusual. I suspect it's unusual for a reason.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by bumby on Monday December 06, 2021 @01:31PM (#29463666)
If the CEO didn’t want to seem like he was passing the buck, he could have had an all-hands meeting afterwards and explain it was ultimately his decision.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by prionassembly on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:42AM (#29461988)
Hell, 10:1 would be okay and 1/10th of the price.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by trasz on Monday December 06, 2021 @11:44AM (#29462033)
Tbh from the quotes it seems Vishal Garg is not only incompetent, but also a bit of a shitgibbon. Not sure if 1:1 meeting would help in anything here.
Re:Better.com CEO fires 900 employees on Zoom call by tyingq on Monday December 06, 2021 @12:14PM (#29462503)
Ah, I didn't mean a 1:1 with the CEO. A 1:1 meeting with your leader or an HR person.