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Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by wccrawford on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @06:50AM (#2940870)
So what I learned was that Sarah is not a team player. Maybe not by choice, but there it is.

She also doesn't think her resume/CV/whatever that is should actually talk about her qualifications, or at least show them off.

She claims to be extremely passionate, and yet hasn't tried to show any of her portfolio.

She thinks she's smarter than almost everyone she's met.

And she's only willing to look for jobs in a small area.

The bottom line is the team player bit, though. You can't ask to join a team after saying you aren't a team player. That you're non-traditional. After you buck the entire system and then fail to sell yourself.

Sorry Sarah, but if I were in a position to hire you (I'm not, mainly because of the location specified) then I wouldn't take the chance on you. You show a lot of promise for disruption, and not a lot of promise for productivity.

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by robgough on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @07:31AM (#2940953)
How did you get "not a team player"? I read it that she was fed up of being the only "dev" person, and wants to join a team of dev's. Not having being part of a team is not the same as not being a team player in my book.

She says she's the smartest engineer she's worked with. Not at all "smarter than everyone she's met". I took that, from the rest of the text, to be saying that she hasn't worked much with other passionate and experienced engineers/devs and wants the chance to. I don't see it as a negative.

She knows she likes the Boston area, and doesn't want to move. It limits her options, but otherwise I don't see how that's negative?

If I was in a position to hire people and in the Boston area I'd definitely invite her to the office for a coffee and a chat (read: informal interview) as she's precisely the sort of person I'd want to work with. I wish her luck finding the right company.

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by wccrawford on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @09:03AM (#2941229)
"Not a team player" comes from the fact that she's got -no- friends who do what she does. Not even people she's worked with! She hasn't gone to any meetups, or attempted to find others like herself. She hasn't looked for a mentor. She thinks she was smarter than any engineer she's ever worked with, and could learn -nothing- from them. ... I've worked with people far dumber than me, and I've still managed to learn things from them. She's not trying.

She wants a job, but she's more interested in living in a certain area than having a good, interesting job. Everyone has priorities, but this one is somewhat telling.

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by robgough on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @09:12AM (#2941257)
I don't think it's even necessarily a bad thing that her priority is not "the best job" but living in an area she likes (presumably near her "other" friends). This post makes no mention of how active her social life is outside of geekery/engineering and I think it would be wrong to make any presumptions.

Just because "the best job in the word" isn't her priority, it doesn't mean she wouldn't like it. This is her saying "I'd really love a job that matches the following criteria, and is a little outside the box". It'd be bloody awful to be constantly surrounded by people for whom their day job was the most important thing in their life. I got the impression she was currently employed, and just looking for something a little more exciting and suitable for her - if it's out there.

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by wccrawford on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @09:27AM (#2941309)
I'm not saying your job has to be the most important thing in your life, but you're going to be doing it for 8 hours a day, 5 out of 7 days each week. As you sleep another 8 hours a day, that leaves 8 hours a day (16 on weekends) for the rest of your life. It's almost half your life!

For something that takes up almost half of your life, I expect you to treat it as something special.

Also, her note starts out 'I need a job' and that traditional methods have failed her. That almost always means she doesn't have one.

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by wisty on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @07:36AM (#2940972)
Team-player != team leader.

She seems like someone who gets stuff done without making a fuss. In Belbin's Team Inventory, she'd be either be a Teamworker or a Specialist.

A group of people who are all self-promoters smoothing each other's feathers is not a team.

I'm guessing she's self-taught, with no qualifications to show. Hopefully, she can give some overview of what she's been doing in the last 10 years, though. Maybe she doesn't want to share it on a public CV? I'm guessing she's only worked for small companies / non-IT companies, thus her quip about not having smarter engineers around.

Anyway, she seems like a team player, but not much of a career-builder.

My main issue - she says "The traditional job search method seems to penalize me because I'm not very traditional." Why? No degree? No connections (um, just cold call people - you don't need connections to google nearby companies, and track down a project manager)? She gets nervous at technical interviews? Or is she just an emo kid who thinks she's somehow different?

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by wccrawford on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @09:06AM (#2941236)
I totally agree she's a get-it-done type of person. But she hasn't got any sign of being a team player, and quite a few that she's not. (See my other reply.)

I wasn't even sure what to make of the 'non-traditional' bit. Too many people think that of themselves, and most of them are wrong. The ones that are right tend to be hard to work with, because they won't spend the time to grease the wheels.

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by yock on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @07:48AM (#2941015)
> She thinks she's smarter than almost everyone she's met.

I understand the trepidation about that one, I really do, but yet I can almost understand. I'd like to think that I have some programming chops, but I have no deliusions that I'm an elite developer. Yet, if we take that statement to be limited to the context of a workforce, I can largely relate. Outside of a scant few people I've had the privilege of working with I haven't really been the recippient of much knowledge. I don't take this as a compliment to my self so much as a commentary on the relative lack of knowledge in the majority of large IT organizations.

That being said, it's incumbent on her to expose herself to the elites. I've met many in the meetup scene and have benefitted greatly from their expertise.

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by marquis on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @08:28AM (#2941115)
I think she's done a great thing and gotten some discussion going and some name recognition.

Maybe she's not 'presentable' to a traditional recruiter (piercings, whatever). Maybe she's self-taught (is that really a big deal now?) Maybe she has children in Boston (I have friends who would LOVE to move but family keeps you in one place).

She's probably been working solo or in small teams where she's not exposed to team engineering. It sounds to me as if she's really keen to try this and will give everthing she's got to whoever takes a chance and interviews her.

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by wccrawford on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @09:10AM (#2941251)
I don't think physical appearance means much when it comes to tech jobs these days, so I wasn't even worrying about that.

And self-taught is a bonus in my book... Partly because that's what I am as well. But also because most of the elites I've met were self-taught.

She actually said 'Boston Metro'... That's a bit smaller area. I can imagine loving an area, but specialist jobs (and most tech jobs are) require a bit of flexibility to find the best ones.

As for the interview, she has said she doesn't want one. She wants a trial period without an interview or resume or portfolio. That's one of my main issues. Who in their right mind would put someone to work without any idea of their qualificatiions?

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by marquis on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @12:03PM (#2942000)
She never said she doesn't want an interview, can you quote that on her site? And of course she would send her resume/portfolio to a potential employer. I can't imagine anyone is that cut off from reality.
Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by wccrawford on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @07:52PM (#2943689)
"I don't want to wear a suit and sit uncomfortably in your office for 4 hours trying to impress you with my words. "
Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by marquis on Friday September 02, 2011 @10:49PM (#2956331)
Who does? She makes a fair comment about the state of interviewing. I'd hope she finds a position with a small team who can interview in a more relaxed manner. We hire on a trial basis, after interviewing on personality fit and seeing a good resume.
Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by abc_lisper on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @11:56AM (#2941958)
Sir wccrawford, Thanks for proving your almightyness in a very humble way by picking on a girl who tried to distinguish herself from the hordes. Unbelievable grace Sir. The world needs more people like you.
Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by urbanjunkie on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @08:08AM (#2941061)
If I may adopt your strategy, I've learned from your post that

- you're quick to jump to unsupported conclusions. Perhaps you could create some kind of mat for this.

- you're a bit of a traditionalist,

- you think resumes are better than actual contact

- Sarah has done a smart thing by allowing your type to self-select out of the game

[I await the downvote frenzy with a considerable amount of pleasure!]

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by wccrawford on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @08:59AM (#2941207)
- somewhat

- yes

- No! I think they a precursor to contact for a reason. Why would I let her waste hours of time (mine, or other employees) without even having an idea if she's qualified or not?

- Possibly... But I thought the object of this exercise was to find a job, not to eliminate options.

For the record, I upvoted you... Mainly because the first one seems to be self-referential. ;)

Re:Sarah's Non-Traditional Job Search Experiment by urbanjunkie on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @10:35AM (#2941593)
Resumes and CVs are a crapshoot, and typically add little real value - for the most part they give you almost no idea whether the person is really qualified or not.

At this point, if I was hiring and in Boston (or wherever), I'd be tempted to shoot her an email asking her for reference sites, and then on looking at the sites, perhaps grabbing a quick coffee with her. Time taken (1 minute to 1 hour)

As for removing options, I think that's fine - she clearly doesn't want another development McJob, so having a filter (for her and you) is actually a time saver - I mean, you didn't even have to spend 5 minutes reading her resume (although you've probably lost way more time out of your busy schedule reading the comments on HN ;-) )