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A comment on Omicron Update: Nov 27.

Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by mkl on Sunday November 28, 2021 @08:46AM (#29368858)
Wow: "There were two flights from South Africa that landed in Amsterdam late last night. Upon arrival, all 600 passengers were tested on the tarmac and 61 tests came back positive. A 10% prevalence rate on a flight is unbelievably high. [...] Especially given all passengers were negative before take off."

Hopefully there was some contact between them before the flight to help explain that.

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by NiekvdMaas on Sunday November 28, 2021 @09:09AM (#29368994)
The comment that passengers were "negative before take-off" is largely false. Only non-vaccinated passengers were required to show a negative PCR test (max 48h old) or RAG test (max 24h old), vaccinated passengers were allowed to board without any restrictions.

Source (in Dutch): https://nos.nl/l/2407382

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by denni9th on Sunday November 28, 2021 @10:49AM (#29369804)
All passengers on any flight leaving South Africa must show a negative PCR test, including those who have been vaccinated.

Source: https://www.gov.za/covid-19/individuals-and-households/trave...

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by _djo_ on Sunday November 28, 2021 @12:10PM (#29370609)
That’s confusingly worded and not enforced. I can confirm that fully vaccinated people flying from South Africa to the Netherlands did not need negative PCR tests until this week. You’re only required to fill in a declaration of vaccination status on the South African side.

Source: I did the trip in late October, and colleagues just returned in mid-November. None of us had to have negative PCR or any other tests.

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by yreg on Sunday November 28, 2021 @04:20PM (#29373163)
On today’s episode of BBC World Service podcast they interviewed a canadian journalist who flew on one of those flights and she said that they as passangers were not asked to get tested before boarding.

She said she only tested herself since her following flight from AMS mandated it.

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by graeme on Sunday November 28, 2021 @11:17AM (#29370054)
Ah thanks. That sorts out why the passengers were tested despite dutch regulations.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by rocqua on Sunday November 28, 2021 @09:34AM (#29369189)
Note: that source states 13 of those 61 people are confirmed to have the Omikron variant.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by contravariant on Sunday November 28, 2021 @10:47AM (#29369788)
And for completeness, the sequencing hasn't finished yet so that number may still rise.

Primary source for all figures mentioned so far: https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/coronavariant-omikron-tot-nu-toe-...

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by GenerocUsername on Sunday November 28, 2021 @02:01PM (#29371758)
So 50 others were flying presumably infected with standard or unknown variants, but since they are vaccinated it would have gone unchecked?
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by xanaxagoras on Sunday November 28, 2021 @12:00PM (#29370519)
How, is there a new test for Omicron variant? And is it available in the US?
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by _djo_ on Sunday November 28, 2021 @12:11PM (#29370625)
No, it’s confirmed via sequencing. But the Omicron variant has a qPCR dropout like Alpha had, so you can identify likely cases from PCR tests and then use sequencing to verify.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by aenis on Sunday November 28, 2021 @11:56AM (#29370479)
And receiving a negative test does not rule out being positive. The false negative rates - even for pcr - are high double digits (and depend on the phase of the infection). Lots of good research proving it, and yet not widely publicized.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by t0mas88 on Sunday November 28, 2021 @09:06AM (#29368971)
From the local Dutch rules and news: Not all required testing. Fully vaccinated EU citizens could be on that flight without being tested. They changed the rules to require testing for everyone after these two flights were already in the air.

Out of the 61 positive tests, today 13 were confirmed to be the omicron variant.

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by 323 on Sunday November 28, 2021 @09:21AM (#29369083)
And a third of passengers were not wearing masks during the flight despite it being mandatory.

It's just security theater, we pretend to obey the rules, and they pretend to check.

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by tw04 on Sunday November 28, 2021 @12:21PM (#29370740)
Based on…? I’ve been on 4 Delta flights in the last 3 months and the flight attendants were militant about masks. They told a woman in front of me on one flight that if they had to tell her to keep it above her nose a third time she was going to be banned from future delta flights.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by _djo_ on Sunday November 28, 2021 @12:24PM (#29370767)
From personal experience, KLM is quite lax about it.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by mekoka on Sunday November 28, 2021 @03:42PM (#29372780)
Regardless of airlines, masks come off for drinks and snacks. They remain off as long as you look like you're still sipping on that coffee and when you're done, they're usually only loosely enforced back on. It really is a big joke.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by wott on Sunday November 28, 2021 @12:28PM (#29370812)
You tried Delta flights but you didn't try Omicron flights :-)
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by hazza_n_dazza on Sunday November 28, 2021 @07:52PM (#29375038)
its never too early for humour
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by koheripbal on Sunday November 28, 2021 @08:55AM (#29368905)
My suspicion is falsified test results. Since there is no control over lab results nor any verification, falsifying test results is trivial. ...easier than even getting the test even if you think you are negative.

This is why travel bans need to be much much more rapid in response to outbreaks.

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by amanaplanacanal on Sunday November 28, 2021 @10:31AM (#29369631)
As fast as this virus spreads, I suspect travel bans are useless. By the time you discovery an outbreak, it's already circulating in your population.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by carlmr on Sunday November 28, 2021 @01:05PM (#29371183)
Also due to unequal sequencing efforts, countries like South Africa and England get travel bans for being the first to find such a variant.

We're banning the messenger.

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by syngrog66 on Sunday November 28, 2021 @12:53PM (#29371070)
Reasoning from purely a physical system perspective, I'm confident that a travel "ban" will slow its spread, especially the earlier you enforce it.

But agreed it will never be 100% effective.

The question remains is the slowing worth the ban? Bans are painful, but any slowing will buy professionals more time to study it and begin targetted mitigations, and while the total infected is smaller than otherwise.

Trade-offs...

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by flybrand on Sunday November 28, 2021 @08:52AM (#29368891)
> Like defies imagination (as Bergstrom said).

Could there be another source for this?

Hasn’t uniformity in test / detection standards been a source in region to region variability in some instances?

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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by the-dude on Sunday November 28, 2021 @08:55AM (#29368907)
So far 13 have tested positive for Omicron.
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Re:Omicron Update: Nov 27 by fasteo on Sunday November 28, 2021 @02:57PM (#29372331)
The only explanation I can think of is that "especially given all passengers were negative" is false.
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