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Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by charlieyu1 on Saturday November 27, 2021 @12:30AM (#29357739)
If it could work, it would have worked three decades ago. Bank transfers are just a pain in the ass. I still remember all the fees I paid just to transfer money to another bank/another country.

Cryptocurrency was considered a way to simplify the problem, but probably didn’t work in this aspect

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by yashg on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:55AM (#29358159)
India, a third world country has worked it out. Apart from UPI, we have other bank transfer mechanism that doesn't involve writing a check. There's RTGS (Real Time Gross Settlement) for large payments. It's what we use when we buy property or do large business transactions. There's NEFT (National Electronic Fund Transfer) for instant transfers upto INR 500K. There's IMPS (The underlying mechanism of UPI) for instant transfers upto INR 100K.

Intra-bank transfers are always free and instant because bank is just changing numbers on two accounts in the same database.

It has been so easy to move money between banks in India that we don't even think about it.

A decentralized system like crypto which uses pointless proof-of-work to remove trust providing intermediaries are just too slow, expensive and overall inefficient by design. They won't work in real world.

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by baby on Saturday November 27, 2021 @02:07AM (#29358213)
1. India is a single country, cryptocurrencies are global

2. Nobody uses proof of work anymore (besides bitcoin)

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by purple_turtle on Saturday November 27, 2021 @05:01AM (#29359006)
> 2. Nobody uses proof of work anymore (besides bitcoin)

And Ethereum and...

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by baby on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:47PM (#29365133)
True, but Ethereum is moving away from it. If we're talking about modern cryptocurrencies, what's the point of including Bitcoin and Ethereum in discussions?
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by KennyBlanken on Saturday November 27, 2021 @12:55AM (#29357847)
Zelle payment transfers are painless, instantaneous, and free. I can do it from my bank's app or online banking page. Punch in the person's phone number or email, enter the amount, done. They don't even have to accept the payment. And nobody has to describe what the transaction was for; it's highly private, beyond who the money came from / went to and the amount.

The caveat is that the money transfer cannot be undone for almost any reason. There's zero customer/purchase protection. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, however, has instructed banks that part of the Electronic Transfer Act requires banks to refund people if the transfer was a result of them being tricked into giving up their account details (it's not clear if this means the money would be yoinked from the recipient.)

I kind of would like the option to enable some sort of confirmation and/or 2FA for a Zelle payment (mainly this means disabling it via the website; my phone provides bio 2FA), and confirmations for receiving a payment. Those are my only complaints with the system.

But that means it can be trusted by people who want to know, for certain, that they've been paid "for real." It's instantly settled, unlike damn near every other form of money transfer system where even if the money seems to be in your account, there's still a days or WEEKS long delay until the transaction can't be yoinked back.

This makes it great for if you're selling a car and about to sign & hand over the title to the other person, for example.

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by baby on Saturday November 27, 2021 @02:10AM (#29358224)
I’ve used Zelle for years to pay my rent and it’s a real pain because you’re limited to 2k a day. So I have to spread payments on multiple days (I live in SF).

I miss Monzo.

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by krinchan on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:53AM (#29358152)
It’s crazy how much Zelle has taken off in my area. Home contractors. My barber. My family.

Also the etiquette that’s emerged around using Zelle is funny too. If I’m paying someone new, they’ll normally have me send $1 as a test to make sure we all have the right contact info before sending the rest.

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by lotsofpulp on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:07AM (#29359546)
They should be able to request a payment instead of sending $1. If I go into Bank of America's app, I see "Send" "Request" and "Split" options.

I do not see these options on BoA's website though, which is a dumb inconsistency.

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by krinchan on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:10PM (#29363544)
Yeah it’s pretty inconsistent. I can request money through USAA but my barber’s bank doesn’t let him request, so he does the whole “Send $1” dance.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by mrb on Saturday November 27, 2021 @02:16AM (#29358253)
The biggest problem with Zelle is the low limits. I cannot send more than $2500/month. One time I paid a contractor about this amount, and then, well, I couldn't use it for a WHOLE month until the limit reset itself...

Very, very annoying. One of the many reasons I prefer crypto currencies. No one restricts me about what I can do with my money

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by Symbiote on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:04AM (#29359537)
For what it's worth, the limit on MobilePay in Denmark is 15,000DKK/day, $2300.

Through the website, transfers with similar speed are limited to 1,000,000DKK a day ($150k).

In person (showing identification at the bank) I don't think there's a limit.

You will note the restrictions apply also to anyone who has successfully stolen your credentials, or is holding you at gunpoint, etc.

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by Silhouette on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:06AM (#29357908)
I don't know about three decades ago but this type of payment has been ubiquitous in the UK for at least two in the form of Direct Debit and widespread across Europe for years now via SEPA.

It is not just much cheaper than card payments, it is also dramatically more reliable. If you lived in a parallel universe where all of these payment methods had emerged at once and you described a payment method so unreliable that people would actually give a name to the hack of retrying each failed charge automatically, they would think you were joking.

Ironically, despite in theory having a more generous reversal policy to protect consumers from fraud, these direct payment methods are also much less likely to result in inappropriate reversals that harm legitimate merchants, at least in our experience. Perhaps this is because banks will typically only reverse in cases of real fraud whereas card chargebacks are widely abused to commit fraud themselves or applied inappropriately as a blanket measure after an event like a stolen or lost card, and the incentives favour granting the refunds even if the customer just says for the flimsiest of reasons that they want their money back.

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by jacquesm on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:05AM (#29357902)
I'm in the lucky situation that locally I can transfer instantaneously or nearly so across all of Europe and internationally I use bitcoin for recipients in places where banking fees are too high or the transfers too slow. It's a good combination.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by baby on Saturday November 27, 2021 @02:08AM (#29358216)
Why not a stablecoin with lower fees?
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by jacquesm on Saturday November 27, 2021 @02:18AM (#29358259)
Because I'm more than a bit skeptical about all of the groups jumping on the 'lets mint our own coin' bandwagon. The number of stories of scam coins is large enough that I'll take my chances with Bitcoin for the moment and see which ones of the others survive over the longer term. I'm also a bit allergic to being marketed to in the name of the class of product, 'stable' has certain associations that I don't think apply to any of the crypto coins.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by baby on Saturday November 27, 2021 @03:01AM (#29358453)
Usdt sure, although it’s working so far, but there’s plenty of legit stablecoin projects like usdc, or even paxos (which is what novi is using). Why isn’t stable applying to these coins?
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by astrange on Saturday November 27, 2021 @03:14AM (#29358507)
I sent $50 in USDC yesterday and was charged $9 in fees, not counting the coinbase USD<>USDC fee which I think existed since I used a debit card.

Legit crypto users[1] should let you pay with TransferWise.

[1] ie online research chemical stores

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by baby on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:45PM (#29365119)
Ah interesting, I guess USDC relies on Ethereum and so you're eating ETH's fees? I've never used USDC myself. I'm hearing Celo fees are around 1 cents.

Wise is also a great solution, but its speed is going to be dependent on a lot of factors: does it have a partnership with your bank, how long is the route it'll take, and how long each node will take to process a transfer on the route. It is streamlined though so the user experience is top notch, security wise it's a centralized system so the more people use it the more it becomes a single point of failure.

Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by astrange on Monday November 29, 2021 @09:01PM (#29387926)
Oh, and we haven't managed to confirm the transaction yet because I sent slightly too much and Coinbase's UI won't show me the transaction ID, or even the amount sent after fees.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by Ekaros on Saturday November 27, 2021 @06:13AM (#29359293)
How do stablecoins make money? That is how do they pay for everything they do? It either has to be fees or some sort of investment. And investments can always crash, thus resulting loss of money...
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by yokem55 on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:45PM (#29362354)
Circle makes money on the yield they get from the treasury bills they hold. If US treasury bills crash, the stability of USDC will be the least of our worries.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by baby on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:48PM (#29365146)
Transfer fees.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by jokethrowaway on Saturday November 27, 2021 @08:11AM (#29359888)
Because you should be skeptical about their claims about being backed by real money.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by baby on Saturday November 27, 2021 @07:49PM (#29365150)
Some projects are actually extremely serious and audited. For example, Paxos/USDP, USDC. Diem/Libra's proposition was exactly that also.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by spiralx on Tuesday November 30, 2021 @01:57PM (#29395951)
USDC has not been audited, they have only had attestations.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by rasz on Saturday November 27, 2021 @12:42AM (#29357801)
US? Bank transfers are couple clicks with zero fees in most of Europe.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by bserge on Saturday November 27, 2021 @12:55AM (#29357851)
*EU, that's the point. Outside SEPA, people still use SWIFT.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by CRConrad on Thursday December 09, 2021 @01:08AM (#29494367)
Even Swift wasn't all that bad. A bit more clicks, and a fee IIRC, but fortunately most people don't do international transfers all that often.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by thelittleone on Saturday November 27, 2021 @01:07AM (#29357912)
This seems out of touch with modern offerings e.g. wise.com. Easier than PayPal with none of the crazy bank transfer fees.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by TedDoesntTalk on Saturday November 27, 2021 @02:05AM (#29358202)
Wise fees are still too high for international transfers. They are doing currency arbitrage to sweeten the deal they get.
Re:Bank transfers as a payment method by blntechie on Saturday November 27, 2021 @04:25AM (#29358857)
Wise is too slow (especially for transactions involving the US) and still expensive.