News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by tata71 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @12:48PM (#29320782)
Can you name one, that the group would know, that wouldn't be improved by a convergent phone or tablet offering?
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by acdha on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:31PM (#29321327)
When was the last time you used an application from a gallery, archive, museum or library? How many people use https://apps.apple.com/us/app/wikipedia/id324715238 instead of visiting wikipedia.org? I'm not naming names but this came up a number of times at meetings I was involved with in the GLAM community where people mentioned having spent considerable amounts of money on apps, even winning design awards or getting featured in the Apple AppStore, and then seeing that their daily active users never came within 4 orders of magnitude of their web traffic.

What they generally had in common is that they're content-heavy (i.e. solidly in what the web was designed for), might not require authentication, and most importantly aren't something most of the users wanted to use all of the time. If you are trying to get the hours for a tourist destination or even a restaurant, look at public information, etc. the time needed to login to the app store, authenticate to approve the purchase, wait for a large file to download, open the app and complete any mandatory enrollment, wait for it to retrieve content, etc. was often orders of magnitude slower than using the website. Restaurants and bars are a great example of this: if it's your hangout and they have something like integrated ordering, maybe a trivia night or something like that, the app can be useful. For most people, however, a webpage with the contact info and a menu with Apple/Google/Stripe buttons to pay is going to be better than an app they use a couple of times a year.

The other key thing to understand is that this is a question of priorities and budgets. It wasn't that there is no possibility of doing anything useful for these organizations in a mobile app but rather than the cost wasn't worthwhile for the incremental benefit to the users, especially when you considered the opportunity cost of not spending that much money on something else, especially since most of the cool things you could do in an app could also be done on the web with very similar quality but with the difference that you only had to build one version rather than 2+ and the web version required much less ongoing maintenance.

Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by tata71 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @07:09PM (#29325338)
Yes, I think we're in agreement: fuck apps, use webapps.

Progressive web apps with proper manifests so that I can put them onto my home screen.

Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @01:51PM (#29321641)
Hn would be worse as an app, but more notably Twitter, and reddit would be better as pure web pages if they didn't purposely cripple them to funnel people into the app.
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by scns on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @02:21PM (#29322051)
Well, i usually read HN on my mobile with Materialistic. It is one of the apps i use the most often.
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by mikeyjk on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @06:29PM (#29324945)
There's no way to be notified of comment replies, or see votes, though. But otherwise I love it as well.
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by codazoda on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @07:00PM (#29325264)
Dumb question time… How do you get notifications on comment replies? I thought this missing feature was “by design” to limit bickering.

Edit: I won’t (eventually) see your reply because I just hit the comment depth limit. Reach out by email if you want to answer. :P

Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by acdha on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @08:14PM (#29325857)
There's a handy site if you see this: https://hnreplies.com/
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by aspenmayer on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @10:34PM (#29326690)
There is no comment depth limit per se; to continue replying, you must click the timestamp of the comment you wish to reply to.
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by hunterb123 on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @05:13PM (#29324226)
Same, it works offline, loads faster with bad mobile connection, better gestures & UX overall.
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by pjmlp on Thursday November 25, 2021 @02:08AM (#29338942)
I use twitter's PWA. Not planning to ever use the proper app.
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by bccdee on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @06:05PM (#29324692)
Even twitter is a PWA now — the app is redundant.
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by bccdee on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @06:05PM (#29324683)
I for one will never download an app when I can just use the mobile website instead. That's what modern websites are — they're single-use disposable applications. Why would I throw that away for a native app that eats up disk space and has much greater access to my device?
Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by dotancohen on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @02:36AM (#29327721)

  > Why would I throw that away for a native app that ... has much greater access to my device?
You wouldn't, because you understand. But for every one of you there are 99 other who will install such a app if it is pushed to them. Apps are almost like bookmarks now.

Bookmarks with access to your location, contacts, and camera.

Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by selcuka on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @02:55AM (#29327795)
> Bookmarks with access to your location, contacts, and camera.

Also bookmarks that usually point to an obsolete and/or inferior version of the web site.

Re:Django, HTMX and Alpine.js: Modern websites, JavaScript o... by brailsafe on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @03:07AM (#29327858)
In the same way a mobile-first website can be done poorly—or non-existent—so too can a native app not add any value.