Cycling is my primary mode of transportation, and I've found a couple things help with this:
1. Take the lane any time there's a chance of conflict such as a right hook, and when there is not enough space for a car to safely pass [1][2]
2. Use a headlight all the time, even during the day. This is what motorcyclists do, and when I made this change I noted a major drop in the number of drivers that turn without noticing me.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling#Lane_control
[2] This page has descriptions of several types of collision, with example videos and how to choose a lane position that avoids them: https://iamtraffic.org/engineering/behaviors-and-risk/
I don't like riding in traffic mostly because drivers tend to have a short fuse for anything that isn't exactly at the limit, but on bike paths everything works just fine. The problem is that s-pedelecs are technically lumped in with the scooters, even though there is no throttle and there is absolutely no way you are going to sustain 40 Kph+ for anything but a very short period. But they're still pretty new and little by little municipalities are adapting and allowing s-pedelecs to use the bike lanes. What helps is that s-pedelec riders are extremely defensive. In town I simply reduce the assist to 'eco' and cycle with the rest of the bikes, and on the intercity bike paths I go as fast I conditions allow, typically 35 to 38 or so. On a longer trip that averages out to 33 to 35 Kph, which means a 1 hour car trip turns into a 2 hour bike trip, which is acceptable (and never traffic jams, which can turn that 1 hour car trip into a three hour car trip!).
My point is that you should be more ingenuous with your assertions of what the capabilities of these bikes are when communicating with people about it. Nothing makes people more skeptical than reading things that are just plain false from an advocate.
That's my massive pet peeve & safety concern: I WANT to love e-Bikes, and all those sorts of things; and like a fellow poster, I've been riding both 500-650cc motorcycles and 50-125cc scooters for more than a decade so 2-wheelers are part of my life; but basically all the ads, shops, and salespeople over here are focusing on "You don't need license, you don't need insurance, you don't need to behave like a vehicle and obey the rules" as their main and primary sales point; and therefore the behaviour of riders is equally nonchalant. In the Toronto area (and it's important to be explicit because this is definitely different in different geographies), the relationship between cars and non-gas two-wheelers is charitably described as "strained" ("murderous/self-righteous hate" may be more accurate), and we all need to get better and understanding how we can co-exist and behave responsibly on the road.
In the Panhandle, for example, there is a mixed use bike / walking path. It is very dangerous for the walkers even with normal bikes, as the bikes are whizzing by the walkers at 20mph. However one day I was walking, and a HUGE mutant E-bike with massive fat tires & very heavy frame, flew by me at what seemed like 30-40mph -- and to me, it felt exactly like a near miss from a motorcycle.
There are other safety concerns with recent trends, with the Slow streets. Everyone walks in the middle of those streets & the pedestrians treat them as their exclusive domain: kids playing, etc. But the drivers long ago stopped respecting the "slow street" concept, and whiz around the traffic cones, and then go 30mph down the street. The city is still treating them as an experiment, which is a part of the problem.
I love both E-Bikes and the Slow Streets, and they should be a huge part of our future: * Cities should make the Slow Streets official and modify them to make them impractical to use for driving a car (perhaps making them have a single curving central lane). * Likewise the E-Bikes need a bit more regulation and limited strictly to bike only lanes, not the mixed biking / pedestrian paths.
As it is currently the progress of society and technology has created a bit of a dangerous situation.
The solution is to make streets feel more dangerous to them: narrow streets, or at least obstacles like concrete planters that force drivers to go around them.
I’d love to see half of the width of Sunset’s streets reclaimed with wider sidewalks, planters with trees, and bike lanes. But I don’t see it happening to anywhere near the extent of Netherlands efforts, and simply narrowing the roads to Japanese or Korean neighbourhood width wouldn’t be realistic since they are already built.
i also like the dutch solution, in which entrances into these slow zones are generally with a raised crosswalk that acts as a speed bump.
Reference: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles-fa...
I think the only problem here is that some of these things can be hard to regulate with making random enforcement stops. And people typically aren't much of a fan of random stops which is understandable, I'm not either. So I guess you'd have to happen to catch them by LIDAR, but I don't even know how accurate such a reading would be against a small bike. Not sure it would be admissible in a court.
My average speed on the ebike only increased by 3-5 mph over my regular bike, but my distance and usage has gone up.
Additionally a bicycle can do Lane splitting much better than a motorcycle can.
I however don't ride my bike in the US because it's not safe to. There's not the proper infrastructure which just annoys drivers, but if there was I wouldn't have a problem sticking to riding 20kph in the city until I get to rural parts for training. Riding fast in bicycle lanes seems irresponsible if you're amongst commuters.
I suppose I just kinda answered this. There should be speed limits for bike lanes inside cities.
In most countries that would be far above the legal limits imposed on ebikes. As a result, the ebikes available for purchase are all limited to 25-32 kph max and typically have power limits of 250-300 W. Since ebikes are a lot heavier, exceeding 32 kph for more than a few seconds is generally very difficult.
I don't think GP is being disingenuous with any of his assertions. In the US there might be ebikes with much higher top speeds, but jacquesm doesn't live in the US and neither do most of the other people on this planet. Most ebikes sold do exactly what he's describing.
Yeah, that is the legal limit but I turned it off in the bios. When cycling on roads I want to be going as fast as possible to keep things safer for me by moving at roughly traffic speeds and disincentivizing dangerous maneuvers by motorists. On bike trails and such I keep to 20mph or so as safe.
I actually tried to get mine registered as a moped with a license plate and insurance coverage etc. but was essentially told to take a hike by the state and insurance companies. So I did.
Okay, you should have said that in the first post. If you're not using the class of vehicle the comment was talking about, your experience isn't really relevant.
Even so, I can go at least 4MPH greater than OP's suggested maximum speed legally.
We know :)
(to be fair and charitable: I agree that moving with traffic is, everything else equal, safer than not moving with traffic. But everything else is NOT equal - I am not convinced you have the weight [i.e. centre of gravity, inertia, ability to absorb bumps, etc], maneuverability, traction, braking power, and as you point out insurance or license and possibly training, and possibly protective systems as other vehicles moving at the same speed)
2) "Moving with the speed of traffic for my safety" is a... "Nice" (that was sarcasm, I mean egocentric) attitude.
3) "The speed of traffic" may be higher for you now that you live in the countryside, but A) sounds like you rode / ride about as fast in the city, too?; and B) the typical use case relevant to the discussion is not yours but the city/suburban one.
It's bad enough that you can go so fast indefinitely; please don't.
Anything going faster than 25MPH (40 km/h) without cutting out in NYC is legally classified as a moped. https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/ebikes.shtml
Without commenting on safety, let me just say that 40mph is a fantasy, unless you're going down a VERY steep and long hill. It also requires you to be in a road racing bike position, or air resistance will flat out not let you go that fast (people are quite wide)
But my bike is otherwise stock. There is no extra power added to the stock Yamaha motor (250W rated, ~400W peak power). The only thing that is removed is the 28mph limiter.
The DIY conversions that let you go 40mph (I've seen the videos just as well) are more in the realm of electric mopeds and motorcycles than bikes, IMO.
Those speeds sound like bogus. I can maintain about 40kph on my ebike on a flat surface, but that requires pedaling in addition to the motor and is a fairly energetic exercise.
Also, pushing beyond 45kph, you really start to feel the air resistance and it becomes exponentially harder to go beyond 45kph for any long period of time, unless going downhill.
Most ebikes don't really come with the chainring size to go up to high speeds, unless modified with a giant 50+ size, which is more apt for racing road bikes (non-electric)
Nitpick: it becomes cubically harder. ;)
Quadratic: x^2
Cubic: x^3
Polynomial (eg. 3rd degree): a + b x + c x^2 + d x^3
Exponential: e^x
If it's capable of doing 50KPH it should be treated as a motorcycle, away from other cyclists and pedestrians and the rider should have the same knowledge as a motorcyclist wrt to how to behave in traffic.
There are some people who modded their ebikes to go faster, but I've only encountered them very rarely.
Fun fact/side note - power requirements generally scale with the cube of speed due to rapidly increasing air drag, so going at 50km/h is much harder (and requires a much stronger motor) than going at 30km/h.
His assertion was "there is absolutely no way you are going to sustain 40 Kph+ for anything but a very short period". I disagree, and I think minimizing the capabilities of these machines in the rhetoric is counterproductive to converting skeptics.
In the US it's 100% legal to go 28MPH on them for as long as you can - which for me would be nearly forever on flat ground.
Usually "more ingenuous" would mean "more naive" or "more childlike" or "less capable of deceit", none of which seem to be what you intended.
Thanks.
At some point, we do need to restrict faster vehicles from operating in the bike lanes and the sidewalks, because the speed differentials will probably end up killing someone.
At a guess your bike outputs more power than is legal here.
From a brief look - no. Belgium says "4000 W 45 km/h limited "speed pedelecs", which are classed as mopeds for all requirements."
Mine has a 750W nominal motor, but seems to output around 1050W at peak.
A typical s-pedelec is somewhere between 350 and 750 W nominal and with peaks of maybe twice that.
I'm pretty sure that the risk of being hit by or hitting a vehicle is multiple orders of magnitudes higher. Which isn't exactly better, but let's at least worry about the correct sources of danger.
I don't really see the point of pedelecs, unless you disregard the law and just pretend they are less powerful e-bikes. But then you'll lose it if the police notice.
I do also ride my bike on weekends have have been riding a 650cc motorbike for 15+ years, so not at all against 2 wheels. It's just that most people on two wheels seem to have started very recently and they don't know how to behave.
What has been shown is that people who travel by many different modes; cylists, pedestrian, motorcycle, car, bus etc, are usually much safer and better at navigating traffic. We are all still masters at judging people only based on feelings though that will probably never change.
As a cyclist I know that a road bike is faster than a car in a roundabout so when I drive my car I don't overtake bikes right before roundabouts: either they'll try to overtake me right where the road gets narrower (unsafe) or have to slow down behind me (and they don't have an engine). So I slow down a little and overtake them after the roundabout. Same thing when approaching a red traffic light. I'll have to stop anyway.
Some pedestrians keep the left on mixed bicycle / pedestrian roads (this is a drive on the right country) probably to defend against the occasional crazy cyclist. That's dangerous IMHO because as a cyclist I get surprised sometimes when I didn't realize they are walking or worse running towards me and I get suddenly closer to them than I foresaw.
And as a driver it's really difficult to see a bicycle with no lights at night (nearly all food deliveries here.) At least wear some reflecting clothes, but buy a rear light and charge it as you do with your phone. Front lights are important too. One of them nearly crashed into my left door on a rainy night because I didn't see him when I came out from a stop.
The top speed (with assist) for class 1 & 2 e-bikes is well within the speed range of a regular bicycle. 15 MPH is considered a reasonable average speed for beginners, and 18-22 MPG is not out of the question with training. I've ridden my own e-bike past 20 MPH with no assist on occasion, and being a foldable model designed for electric assist it has a higher mass, smaller (20") wheel radius, higher rolling resistance (due to low-pressure 3-4" tires), and lower gearing than your typical non-electric commuter bike.
> … but you're also not a motorcycle that deserves its own lane.
Bicycles should have their own lane, whether electric or not, regardless of speed. It's not safe to share the lane with another vehicle.
I wish someone would make an ebike that gradually dials down the assist in the last 5-15kph (depending on max speed; my experience is mostly on a US class 3 bike that caps out at 45kph; I'd like it to gradually ease off starting at ~30kph).
I assume it's a combination of the extra weight and the extra losses from pedalling the motor as well as the wheels (mostly the second part I think). Going faster on my non-electric mountain bike is significantly easier.
People saying regular bicyclists do 40-45 kph seldom have much experience on bikes. And someone going that in city traffic, like a lot of ebikes do, is just not a thing =/ too much stopping/starting and with dedicated lanes you still have to slow to traffic. O ly ebikes get up to those speeds in that encironment
Cars per se have the technical equipment to deal with that; it's the drivers' brains -- experience / expectations, basically -- that need to catch up.
Even human powered bicycles are entitled to their own lane. They are vehicles like anyone else.
Obviously rules for bicycles may be slightly different but more and more inner city roads here in EU are now clearly marked as bicycle friendly.
Every day I see drivers playing with their phone and that two car distance is short enough for them not to look up and read end the cyclist.
When my kids reach the age when they can cycle by themselves it will worry me even more.
I don't understand, ebikes are regulated and the assistance will top at 25kmh in most EU countries, which is a very average speed for a bike without assistance.
Unless you're talking about speed bikes, that can ride faster but are regulated like a motorcycle with license plate and can't ride on cycle paths. So it's just an electric motorcycle that looks like a bicycle.
So I find it kind of weird that they're often allowed in bike lanes, especially where those are separated from pedestrians by just a painted line on a sidewalk (or sometimes even worse, explicitly mixed in with them!).
If you’re traveling at normal road speeds, wouldn’t you be a (electric) motorcycle? And require lights, tags, and insurance like any other motorcycle?
Illegal? Sure. Are they going to get charged for it? Probably not.
Until they get into an accident and they discover that no insurance will cover them in any way because they were riding an illegaly modified vehicle. Also good way to find yourself 100% at fault in any collision.
I thought of stop riding bikes, but then chose to have a life insurance instead
This is how i treated cars, but it feels backwards. You're made right after the accident, but you're already dead.
I've found the most difficult thing about riding an e-bike is the other motorists have no idea how to react to you. You're not really a regular bicycle anymore due to your speed, but you're also not a motorcycle that deserves its own lane. I have at least one car turn in front of me almost every trip out just because they're misjudging my speed. I get honked and yelled at when on the road because folks get frustrated when I'm using the left-hand side of the right-turn lane as a bike path.
Sidewalks/bike paths tend to be a lot less safe in residential areas as well, since cars coming out of their driveways really don't expect an e-bike to come rolling through. I've learned to dramatically reduce speed in areas like this.
Aside from those things, I love it! I ride the e-bike whenever I'm going somewhere in range (I live in Florida so things tend to be spread out) and the weather permits. My bike gets about 80km which is more than enough for anyplace I want to go on a bicycle anyway.