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Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by linguae on Thursday November 11, 2021 @08:13PM (#29195272)
I remember seeing this when I was a CS research intern working at a major Japanese company in Kawasaki back in 2010. I'm from America, and this was my first time in Japan. At the company, our workstations ran Windows XP; I guess the company refused upgrading to Vista, and Windows 7 was not yet approved.

This article brought back two memories:

1. Learning how to code on a Japanese keyboard, where some of the symbols were in different locations, and where I needed to get used to having two small space bars instead of one single, long space bar. Eventually one of my coworkers introduced me to the Happy Hacking Keyboard (https://happyhackingkb.com), which is popular among programmers in Japan due to its typing feel and the fact it has a version with a US-style keyboard layout. I stuck with that keyboard for the rest of my internship.

2. Seeing ¥n in my code instead of \n.

Eventually I ended up installing a Linux virtual machine on my workstation that was localized to American English, though a big reason for this was because my internship project was writing a Linux kernel module. But I still needed to use my Japanese knowledge to use Microsoft Office and other programs on Windows.

My eight months in Kawasaki were among the best in my life. Since then I've been to Japan six more times, and I'm looking forward to visiting Japan again once it's reopen to tourism.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by ninkendo on Thursday November 11, 2021 @09:21PM (#29195667)
I remember wanting to buy the Happy Hacker keyboard around 15 years ago or so, although I never did. I love this quote from their website:

“Cowboys in the western United States leave their horses when they die. But never leave their saddles, regardless of how long they need to walk in the desert. Saddles are interfaces that are deeply adapted to our bodies whereas horses are consumable items. It should not be forgotten that computers are consumables nowadays, but keyboards are interfaces that we can use through our lives.”

This resonates with me because I decided that I’d use a laptop-sized keyboard and trackpad for all my computing, even at my desk (which is 95% of the time nowadays.)

The apple magic keyboard 2 (I think?) is nearly exactly the same size, layout, and key throw as the pre-2016 MacBook Pro scissor keyboards… and the Magic Trackpad does all the same gestures, etc.

Which means I can switch to my laptop at any time and not have to re-adjust to different ergonomics, everything’s more or less the same. I just can’t wait for my M1 pro max to ship, because I can’t stand the butterfly keyboard having such a different key throw and I’ll be back to more or less parity again.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by 13of40 on Thursday November 11, 2021 @09:47PM (#29195818)
> laptop-sized keyboard

Interesting - I actually switched to a small keyboard about a year ago because I was getting shoulder pain from my right arm hanging so far to the side so I could work the mouse. The smaller keyboard forces both of my arms closer to my body, and the chronic pain I had in my shoulder for a year or two has disappeared.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by aikinai on Friday November 12, 2021 @01:37AM (#29196848)
I also use a small keyboard (Keychron K3) even on my desktop, but once in the past when I switched to a full-sized keyboard, I intentionally switched to left-hand mousing since the extra distance is only on the right side (with the numpad).

I was also hoping the switch would help balance out my shoulders after years of right-hand mousing. It took a few days to get used to, but now I'm basically mouse/trackpad ambidextrous. I'm not sure if it helped my shoulder; I think maybe it did, but too many confounding factors.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by 3np on Friday November 12, 2021 @05:14AM (#29197838)
Funny. I feel less strain and pain in neck and shoulders with a split keyboard compared to “normal” due to shoulders being more open.

I guess it just goes to show our bodies are different and there’s no universal ergonomically optimal solution.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by BeFlatXIII on Friday November 12, 2021 @10:00AM (#29199870)
My ideal keyboard would have buckling spring switches in the body of a Poker 2 for this exact reason. I can use a separate numpad on the far side of my mouse for extended numeric entry, but the far more frequent use of keeping my left over the keys while my right uses the rodent is made much less RSI-prone.

When you had your shoulder pain, was it primarily at the very base of the shoulder blade? That's where it was for me before I moved to a vertical mouse.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by 13of40 on Friday November 12, 2021 @08:13PM (#29206410)
No, it was directly in the shoulder joint, like a rotator cuff injury.
Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by makeitdouble on Thursday November 11, 2021 @08:18PM (#29195301)
Now that a significant number of programmers use Mac keyboard, I frequently see people go for the "International" layout that is available from every Apple stores() for all keyboard including laptops. It's pretty close to the US layout, with a bigger entry key and two more keys as a bonus.

() in some store I think it's the "GB international". Also, it's such as shame all layouts aren't available from all countries, when in practice ordering a laptop means having it shipped from China anyway.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by gumby on Thursday November 11, 2021 @08:40PM (#29195434)
I think it’s partially a local inventory issue but more importantly reduces the chance the customer will accidentally order the wrong thing, at the cost of making an unusual case more complicated.
Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by makeitdouble on Thursday November 11, 2021 @10:52PM (#29196152)
I wonder if beyond local inventory, there is a repair/support aspect to it.

On the confusion part, I once went through phone support back and forth to get a BTO with a different keyboard. It didn't work, and I didn't get much info beyond shrugs. They basically tried to pass the order to the JP branch and it didn't pan out.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by glandium on Thursday November 11, 2021 @09:04PM (#29195566)
There are significant differences in what's on shift+numbers. Like ( is on 8 and ) on 9. (IIRC they are on 9 and 0 on US keyboards) Other non alphabetical keys have different location too.
Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by Symbiote on Friday November 12, 2021 @06:40AM (#29198284)
No, you are describing several European layouts, but not those intended for English speakers

The British, Irish and especially the "International" layout are close to the US layout.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by glandium on Friday November 12, 2021 @02:52PM (#29203802)
I'm describing the Japanese layout.
Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by pcardoso on Friday November 12, 2021 @03:07AM (#29197237)
I use the normal Portuguese keyboards but with the US intl layout.

Remnants from a time where my iBook g3 keyboard was US, and the Portuguese layout cost extra. I never got used to the Mac Portuguese layout either. Shortcut issues and some symbols in wrong places.

Makes computers easier to resell locally when I upgrade.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by akg_67 on Friday November 12, 2021 @02:01AM (#29196963)
I just ordered the new MBP with US Keyboard from Apple Store in Japan. Default is Japanese JIS keyboard. Drop down selection for keyboard also had other localities and language options.
Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by bntyhntr on Thursday November 11, 2021 @10:13PM (#29195968)
Oh man, I had a similar experience with the keyboard and a large Japanese company, but I just got used to it. Going back and forth between my laptop at the company dorm(!) and work was disorienting. Really liked being able to hit " without holding shift though. And I think @ was somewhere more reasonable? Too lazy to look it up right now but boy was that "fun". My memory's hazy, but I think my machine's language was set to en so at least I had normal backslashes.
Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by jcun4128 on Thursday November 11, 2021 @08:29PM (#29195373)
These are like those compact mech keyboards, always wonder what about the arrow keys I use a 68 myself with conventional arrow keys
Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by iCarrot on Thursday November 11, 2021 @08:41PM (#29195438)
I'm on a 40% and my keymap is hold spacebar + wasd = arrows

It becomes second nature after awhile. If you can shift+1 to type !, you can spacebar+w to go up a line.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by fleaaaa on Friday November 12, 2021 @04:40AM (#29197675)
Function + hjkl on 40% keyboard, with that I don't need to move my wrist. Sometimes it feels a bit lousy to use standard keyboard..
Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by GoblinSlayer on Friday November 12, 2021 @10:36AM (#29200291)
>Seeing ¥n in my code instead of \n.

It's a feature of a font, it simply has ¥ glyph for the reverse solidus character. You should be able to get it back by using a different font.

Re:But What's Up with That ¥? by cevn on Friday November 12, 2021 @03:52AM (#29197420)
If you liked the HHKB you may like some of their other current offerings. My current KB is a Realforce TKL stealth black and it is awesome.