News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by manningthegoose on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @12:56PM (#29164960)
As someone who was an initial skeptic when this was first announced, I really appreciate what twitter is trying to do with Blue, especially around direct payments to publishers. Any step to get the internet off of the ad-based data-harvesting revenue model is ultimately better for almost all parties.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by tootie on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:28PM (#29165383)
But, it's not direct payment to publishers. It's indirect via twitter. You can pay publishers directly already by buying subscriptions. Publishers angling for retweets to get nickels from twitter's algorithm is anathema to professional journalism.

This is mostly my hot take just based on the press release, but color me dubious. Local news is struggling nationwide and this doesn't feel like a solution. It feels like silicon valley looking to increase profits for their shareholders to the detriment of the world.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by darth_avocado on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @06:16PM (#29168878)
> You can pay publishers directly already by buying subscriptions.

I don't mind paying for news. However, I do mind being on hold for 2 hours on a 1800 number that I had to dig up from some defunct webpage to cancel my subscription.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by slg on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @07:25PM (#29169485)
This is already illegal if you are in California and you can call your representatives and tell them to support the Unsubscribe Act to make it illegal nationwide.

House link- https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3953

Senate link - https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/207...

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by pc86 on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @11:13PM (#29171008)
OK but for the ~88% of Americans who don't live in California the point stands, at least today.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by jdeibele on Monday November 15, 2021 @04:08PM (#29232782)
I've mentioned this before: switch your address to a California one, cancel now that you're a Californian, optionally switch it back to your proper address.

Worked for me with several publications.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by captainredbeard on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @07:39PM (#29169603)
Sending physical mail can be effective, too, and can use less of your time in a trade for additional walltime.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by gwbas1c on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:39PM (#29168502)
> You can pay publishers directly already by buying subscriptions

But that's not how most of us access news. We look at sources like Twitter, Hacker News, Facebook, Google News for links to articles.

Subscribing to a single website doesn't work in this model.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by tootie on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @08:13PM (#29169938)
Who is "we"? I look at aggregators but I also subscribe at the source for publications I value.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by rch on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @11:05PM (#29170956)
It's difficult to find valuable sources though. I'm currently spending over $100 a month on subscriptions, and and I still feel like my sources are biased and myopic.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by mikojan on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @07:22PM (#29169463)
Why wouldn't it work? You simply subscribe to a publisher you are valuing.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by erik_seaberg on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:16PM (#29170664)
How many different publishers did I visit once or twice this week? Probably a lot, but I’m not sure which, or how much all of them would cost.

Subscription-only articles suffer from the opposite of the network effect. If I pick 1/n publishers to subscribe to, and you pick 1/n, the odds I can read something you tried to share are only 1/n^2. It might help if there were wire services for major topics I care about.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by gwbas1c on Sunday November 14, 2021 @05:40PM (#29221443)
If I subscribed to every publisher I valued, I'd pay more than I pay for Netflix, YouTube, Amazon, and Disney+ combined!

I think if the music industry can come out with a 1-subscription-fits-most model, I'm sure the journalism industry can figure out how to evenly distribute a modest $5-15 subscription fee.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by chaorace on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @11:06PM (#29170969)
It's quite the feat to convince someone to pay for something they already get for free, particularly in the digital space... Aha! The answer has been right under our noses the entire time: we need to sell online media subscriptions as NFTs!
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by manningthegoose on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:32PM (#29165446)
> Publishers angling for retweets to get nickels from twitter's algorithm is anathema to professional journalism.

Isn't that what they're already doing? Except the payer is the advertiser instead of the platform itself via the subscriber.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by terr-dav on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:39PM (#29165548)
Professional journalism has always had this problem to a degree; there's always been an advertiser or other funding source you don't want to piss off. Twitter just exacerbates this by rewarding the most sensational, attention-grabbing posts.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by Robotbeat on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:30PM (#29167741)
Editors writing clickbait headlines have been guilty of this for so, SO long. And it has gotten worse over time, even as the actual articles are increasingly behind paywalls. Complain about headlines which have almost no bearing on anything that could be called truth, and you’ll be accused of not reading the article… as if that’d get the headline-writers off the hook.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by tootie on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:13PM (#29178097)
If you've noticed a lot more paywalls going up it's because the era of clickbait is actually dying. Serious newsrooms have always hated it and shriveling ad revenue has finally tipped back towards subscriptions being the most viable path to profit. Content farms and their SEO game is far less valuable than it used to be.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by tshaddox on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:59PM (#29168727)
> Publishers angling for retweets to get nickels from twitter's algorithm is anathema to professional journalism.

Wouldn't payment integration with Twitter (if executed well) just make it easier for Twitter users to convert to paying the publisher after seeing the publisher's tweet? I don't see how it would increase the incentive for a publisher to post clickbait tweets, except perhaps for publishers whose in-house payment flow is very poorly implemented or nonexistent.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by kooshball on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:08PM (#29168175)
disagree with this point. I rather have more objective ads driven journalism than subscription "professional journalism". subscription are even more biased and create further silos for mis/information.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by nuker on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @04:22AM (#29172701)
> Publishers angling for retweets to get nickels from twitter's algorithm is anathema to professional journalism.

To what?

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by ghawk1ns on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:08PM (#29165116)
Who said the data-harvesting would stop?
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by manningthegoose on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:16PM (#29165229)
You're right, it probably won't, at least not while it's still printing money for all the corporate entities involved. But it's my understanding that most of the data-harvesting tools in use today were originally created to enhance ad-targeting and drive up CPM. At the very least we can hope products like Blue might put a dent in this incentive structure.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by otrahuevada on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:05PM (#29167459)
Facebook makes maybe about 30USD a year from any given profile:

> https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a212721...

Being relatively optimistic about Twitter's size, and assuming they're just fantastic at it, Twitter might make what, half of that? So for 3$ a month you need about half of the userbase to be on board for data munging to no longer make sense as a business model.

I do wonder how high that mark is though, every SAAS I've worked with has been pay-to-use from the start, so this is not a metric I'm familiar with.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by contravariant on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @06:46PM (#29169121)
What's weird here is that I would estimate it to be very difficult to find a person who generated over 30USD of revenue through ads for anyone other than the people selling the ads.

But maybe my worldview is wrong here, I'm definitely not the right person to estimate Facebook's reach.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by sodality2 on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @06:55PM (#29169190)
Reminds me of: "Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by bookofjoe on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @09:49PM (#29170499)
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by webmaven on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @08:13PM (#29169937)
> So for 3$ a month you need about half of the userbase to be on board for data munging to no longer make sense as a business model.

I think you might be assuming that advertising revenue is evenly distributed among users.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by otrahuevada on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @06:45AM (#29173621)
Twitter Blue is being offered at 3$
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:25PM (#29165346)
Cable television was supposed to be a direct funded, ad free alternative to broadcast.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by dylan604 on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:35PM (#29165496)
Something about a road being paved with good intentions feels appropriate here.
Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by vosper on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:10PM (#29168194)
> At the very least we can hope products like Blue might put a dent in this incentive structure.

I wonder if Twitter Blue customers will be omitted from the data stream that Twitter is selling to corporations and governments?

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by dralley on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:18PM (#29165251)
As someone who used and appreciated Scroll (now Twitter Blue) for the same reasons, I'm pissed that they shut down the standalone service and locked it behind Twitter accounts.

Canceled my subscription after that email went out. It's a shame. Kinda wish Mozilla had acquired it instead, although they don't have the leverage to promote it like Twitter does.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by londons_explore on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @01:32PM (#29165457)
Unfortunately, I suspect $2.99 per month isn't sufficient to make these publishers whole with what they would have earned from the same users.

Only a small fraction of twitter users will sign up, and the overlap with the kind of users likely to spend money on advertisers products will be big.

I suspect this is true at nearly any price point. Even if it cost $50 per month, the tiny fraction of users who did sign up would be worth more than $50 in monthly ad revenue, since those are the kind of people who will subscribe to other high value services.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by smugglerFlynn on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @05:13PM (#29168218)
I think it depends on what kind of product Twitter Blue would become. Getting all the publishers in one app, and getting “news reading experience” designed right, may attract users who were not paying anything to publishers before.

I just wonder if getting into channel business, instead of building more open of a platform where publishers control the prices themselves, was the right move for Twitter. Time will tell.

Re:Twitter Blue is now available in the US and NZ by giga_chad on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @04:50PM (#29167992)
Why would I pay publishers?