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Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by lordnacho on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:15AM (#29128679)
The thing is it doesn't matter whether there are a few miners or a lot. Bitcoin will continue to mine a block every 10 minutes. It's like an energy sink, you can drip in tiny amounts and get the same, or you can pour in all future fusion power plants, you get the same.

So actually it won't affect bitcoin, but it will release the energy to other uses.

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by supermatt on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:37AM (#29128788)
> whether there are a few miners or a lot. Bitcoin will continue to mine a block every 10 minutes

Thats not exactly true. Every 2016 blocks the network compares the actual blocks mined with the target blocks (at 10 mins per block), and adjusts the difficulty accordingly.

If you suddenly had less miners the current difficulty would mean that the time to mine a block would be greater than 10 mins. Depending on where it is in the 2016 block cycle it could also mean an extended period of time before the difficulty is rectified.

If the network suddenly dropped to a VERY low hashrate (like a single PC), it is possible it would take (at current difficulty) tens of millions of years to mine a single block - let alone 2016 of them. Of course, thats probably not going to happen, im just using it as an example to show that its not a fixed period of time per block.

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by swinglock on Saturday November 06, 2021 @09:55AM (#29130215)
It's every 10 minutes on average.
Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by supermatt on Sunday November 07, 2021 @07:13AM (#29138802)
IF the global hashrate stays the same as it did for the 2016 blocks prior to the last difficulty change - this thread is about if the hash rate was suddenly changed by miners going offline.
Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by throw298340 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:30AM (#29128768)
This is just wrong. The hashrate is proportional to the network security, eg 51% attack.

The sentiment on HN against crypto strikes me as odd… it’s like saying cars are the devils tool in the 1900s …

Give it some time to evolve and embrace the future!

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by TomSwirly on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:40AM (#29128803)
The very first time I saw email, I immediately knew I wanted to have it. Ditto with the web. Ditto with video conferencing.

I've known about crypto for almost ten years. I worked in the field writing bits of the rippled code for a couple of years. And I still have no idea why anyone would want to use cryptocurrencies, except of course for crime.

> it’s like saying cars are the devils tool in the 1900s …

Hmm, is this comment intended to be a parody? Well, it certainly turned out that the car was the Devil's tool, because we are running as fast as we can to devastate our climate by turning fossil fuels into carbon dioxide.

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @05:53AM (#29128878)
>car was the Devil's tool, because we are running as fast as we can to devastate our climate by turning fossil fuels into carbon dioxide.

To be fair, mankind evolved a lot due to the use of cars. Off-rail transportation has changed the way we live, not just for the worse. The coffee and bananas I bought today was transported by a motor vehicle for the last mile. The ambulance that drove my friend to the hospital was also a motor vehicle.

Most of our agriculture that is responsible for us having cheap food, is also powered by motor vehicles.

Motor vehicles have benefited nearly everyone, whereas crypto currencies haven't benefited almost anyone so far except the speculators who advocate for more people to buy in, to push the price up, so they can cash out (in fiat of course) at a higher price.

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by DonHopkins on Saturday November 06, 2021 @06:02AM (#29128922)
Your examples are all commercial trucks, not personal cars.

If so many individual people across America didn't need to own multiple cars to commute long distances to work every day, and could simply take decent government subsidized public transportation, or ride their bike safely on well designed ubiquitous bike paths, like I can where I live in Amsterdam, then the world would be a much better place.

Just as the world would be a better place if cryptocurrency's shrill shills and speculating "investors" didn't gamble their money and buy their drugs by burning huge quantities of coal.

There are much more efficient heath-friendly and eco-friendly ways of gambling money and buying drugs than by burning coal to mine cryptocurrency.

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @06:12AM (#29128981)
> could simply take decent government subsidized public transportation, or ride their bike safely on well designed ubiquitous bike paths, like I can where I live in Amsterdam

That sounds preachy and pretentious. Like Paris Hilton saying homeless people should just stop being poor and go to an ATM and take out money to buy a house like she did. Not everyone has access to Amsterdam like infrastructure since not everyone lives in Amsterdam and usually people have no direct say in the public infrastructure of the place they live so they adapt in way that improves their live, the best way they can, usually by owning cars.

Have you considered why 85% of Germans own cars and drive almost everywhere? Same in Austria, outside of Vienna or the city center of the other "bigger" cities, you absolutely need a private car to get anywhere in a timely manner as public transport is sparse and infrequent.

You can't just come in on your high horse flat and dense rich city with top infrastructure and preach that everyone else is doing it wrong and should live like you do, because most people don't have that luxury of such choices where they live and instead have to deal as best they can with poor infrastructure choices made by governments and interest groups way before they were even born, choices which take decades and millions to reverse, if they ever even do.

So please consider this next time.

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by ENGNR on Saturday November 06, 2021 @06:30AM (#29129055)
It's a distributed finite state machine, that anyone can engage with on equal footing. The biggest issue right now is just that the fees are still so crazy.

But once they get L2/L3 chains properly into place, so that every interaction is just a fraction of a fraction of the new state, and you can deploy say a little chat room, or a game world, or a marketplace, a collection of router configs, etc, etc, and not have to think too hard about the state, that's getting pretty cool to me. And combine that with the dev experience starting to get good (I recently used hardhat to make a fully typed, hot reload front end, working with hot reloading fully on chain backend) - it's going to be a new frontier for hacking and side projects like the early internet was

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by piva00 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @11:14AM (#29130898)
I don't think I grasped any of the concepts you tried to expose as benefits of crypto.

It doesn't make sense the jump from keeping state in a distributed, trusted store for a finite state machine to deploying chat rooms, etc., what do you mean? Synchronising those states through a blockchain just to enforce some kind of distributed trust? I really don't get it.

I might be too stupid for this, bear with me. I've heard the argument about L2+ chains for a long time, Lightning has been around since 2017 and I still see this comment popping up, I still see TX fees high as fuck.

I really would like a more clear explanation of what you see as benefits, this whole paragraph reads as pure techno-babble to me.

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by ENGNR on Sunday November 07, 2021 @05:40PM (#29144269)
Oh ok!

So like, you want to make a chat room, and someone has a special power to ban people, and the chat room remembers who is banned. If the banning person doesn’t log in for a while, the power moves to someone else randomly. There’s also membership tiers, so people can pay a small fee to have fancier names if they really like the room, and there are little mini games in there with leaderboards. And there’s also no one in charge, it’s just a room with some rules that exists because the people in it sort of like those rules, and anyone in it can spool another one up with different settings if they want.

All of that stuff would take quuuiiite a bit of backend logic to code. But with smart contracts you can take basically all of it for granted, it might be like… a few pages at most of contract code. And then you can focus on writing a really good user interface instead.

Anyone can then just grab that front end code that just runs in a browser, chuck a tiny bit of crypto in to fuel it, and suddenly the backend exists purely on chain. Wherever there’s a group of people, and they have some kind of collaborative set of rules they’d like to agree to, like a marketplace or anything like that, crypto makes it really really easy

The biggest issue is really just the cost. Currently it’s ~$5 to transact which is… too high for any side project or toy. But with L2’s (rolling out now) it should come down to almost nothing, so I reckon we’ll start to see some pretty cool stuff popping up soon

Re:Swedish government agencies say energy-intensive crypto m... by sktrdie on Saturday November 06, 2021 @06:28AM (#29129044)
I'm also not a fan of cryptocurrency but you seem to be living a privileged life in a country with a stable currency. Crypto is godsend for people where their countries cannot be trusted.