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Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by revolvingocelot on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @10:47PM (#29090555)
edit: this journal might not be worth paying attention to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPI#Controversies

>Does this finding imply that the vaccine would also inhibit DNA damage repair?

Well, yes, but consider the context. If you read the article, and it's almost beyond belief that I have to recommend that you read the article in order to discuss it -- indeed, the information that might assuage your fears is in the very first paragraph -- it's been observed that a consequence of surviving a serious case of COVID is that your immune system is fucked, both during and afterward:

>"SARS–CoV–2 infection extraordinarily affects lymphocyte number and function [3,4,5,6]. Compared with mild and moderate survivors, patients with severe COVID–19 manifest a significantly lower number of total T cells, helper T cells, and suppressor T cells [3,4]. Additionally, COVID–19 delays IgG and IgM levels after symptom onset [5,6]. Collectively, these clinical observations suggest that SARS–CoV–2 affects the adaptive immune system."

Searching for a means by which the vaccine might meaningfully damage your adaptive immune system is ill-advised. Frankly, we've got terrifying amounts of information about the deleterious effects of catching and surviving serious COVID, and administration of a vaccine tends to uncontroversially downgrade the seriousness of the COVID infection that you will almost assuredly get eventually. Thus, even if the vaccine harms you in some way, COVID itself will do worse.

That said, the Discussion section does suggest that there may be improvements to full-spike vaccines in future,

>"indicating that full–length spike–based vaccines may inhibit the recombination of V(D)J in B cells, which is also consistent with a recent study that a full–length spike–based vaccine induced lower antibody titers compared to the RBD–based vaccine [28]. This suggests that the use of antigenic epitopes of the spike as a SARS–CoV–2 vaccine might be safer and more efficacious than the full–length spike."

I'll again point out that however the spike might fuck with B and T cells, the full-blown virus will surely do more.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by koolba on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @11:00PM (#29090653)
> Searching for a means by which the vaccine might meaningfully damage your adaptive immune system is ill-advised. Frankly, we've got terrifying amounts of information about the deleterious effects of catching and surviving serious COVID, and administration of a vaccine tends to uncontroversially downgrade the seriousness of the COVID infection that you will almost assuredly get eventually. Thus, even if the vaccine harms you in some way, COVID itself will do worse.

Explicitly saying nobody should look into a potential negative side effect of vaccines because they might actually find something is down right scary. Much scarier than any fears of “misinformation”. This kind of thinking is why there is mistrust.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by KB4158 on Saturday November 06, 2021 @12:57PM (#29131806)
Vax injuries/deaths are happening, and these lives are being swept under the rug - or dismissed as sacrifices to the cause. COVID will most definitely not be worse than the vaccine for everyone.
Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by nik41tkins on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @11:09PM (#29090700)
I especially want to understand the effects on developing immune systems. There are obvious no long term studies and kids are rarely seriously sick from the virus itself.
Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by revolvingocelot on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @11:05PM (#29090679)
>Explicitly saying nobody should look into a potential negative side effect of vaccines because they might actually find something is down right scary.

You didn't read the article. Or what I wrote about it. The vaccine can't do any worse than the virus, and this study, that does look into a potential negative side effect, found that the virus does indeed do worse!

Scaremongering while putting words into someone else's mouth is why there is mistrust.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by koolba on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:54AM (#29093020)
> You didn't read the article. Or what I wrote about it.

I literally quoted your words. Are you suggesting I randomly selected text and copy/pasted it without reading it?

> The vaccine can't do any worse than the virus, and this study, that does look into a potential negative side effect, found that the virus does indeed do worse!

Nothing in what I said implied that the virus could not be and is not worse. It's a more general point that suggesting an angle of research not be attempted because the result might be unflattering regarding vaccines is ill advised.

If an individual is not at risk for serious complications from COVID (e.g. healthy, young, and fit) then it's not irrational to consider the potential side effects of a vaccine v.s. just the risk of the disease itself. Even the comparison to the same types of side effects of an actual infection is not a fair one as that assumes the individual is guaranteed to get sick. Not everyone lives in a city and travels in a sardine can on rails to go to work every morning so the number of human contacts and potential infection points is not uniform.

> Scaremongering while putting words into someone else's mouth is why there is mistrust.

Claiming that quoting someone's own words is "putting words in someone else's mouth" is some fantastic double-think.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by bjtitus on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @10:39AM (#29095293)
The top 5 states for COVID infection per-capita (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/corona...):

North Dakota

Tennessee

Alaska

Wyoming

South Dakota

I don’t believe any of these states even have a single “sardine can on rails” used by daily commuters.

The idea that you are less likely to be infected in rural Wyoming because you commute by car is pure fiction based on the data. Very few people in the United States are able to avoid grocery stores, pharmacies, or restaurants for more than a week or two.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by j16sdiz on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @11:01PM (#29090662)
> I'll again point out that however the spike might fuck with B and T cells, the full-blown virus will surely do more.

Sure. And the full-blown virus trigger the same immune response and create the same spike protein..

BUT, this is all about risk management. If you live alone in somewhere very low infection rate and don't meet people, there is no point taking this risk.

If you need a vaccine, there are safer (but less effective) alternative vaccines.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by revolvingocelot on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @11:17PM (#29090749)
>If you live alone in somewhere very low infection rate and don't meet people

Heh, good luck! Delta's r0 of 6 to 8 is too high to meaningfully avoid. Sure, if you're some sort of hermit, you can probably manage, but if you're in North America, vaccination rates in rural areas will work against you. Frankly, there's no point in taking the risk.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by TravisDick on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @12:51AM (#29091214)
Thanks for the response! And absolutely a fair point about reading the article. I wasn't really trying to look for ways that the vaccines do damage, given that the risks of covid seem to clearly be higher. Just wanted to check if I understood the implication correctly. Thanks again!
Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by dvdhnt on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @10:59PM (#29090642)
> Thus, even if the vaccine harms you in some way, COVID itself will do worse.

And that’s the TL;DR folks. Seriously, this distillation makes the choice very easy.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by j16sdiz on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @11:05PM (#29090681)
The choice ain't that simple... There are multiple vaccines.. They varies in effectiveness and safeness.

Depends on where you are, the risk of getting inflected varies too.

It is good to stay informed, not blindly take anything you can get.

Re:CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair – Inhibits V(D)J Re... by dvdhnt on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @08:45AM (#29093811)
Ehh I didn’t say that did I? The choice I refer to is, get vaccinated or do not.

This sub outsmarts itself so often and it shows. Medical professionals, scientists, researchers, etc are more qualified than I. There’s nothing blind about it.