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Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by PakG1 on Sunday October 24, 2021 @12:06AM (#28974884)
You need to watch Netflix's Chef's Table, specifically the episode about Bo Songvisava and her restaurant Bo.lan. It's really interesting. She said that before she started Bo.lan, no Thai people who went out for dinner ate at Thai restaurants because there weren't really any high-quality Thai restaurants. Thai food was considered cheap street food or stuff you made at home. If you go out for dinner, you go to a nice classy western restaurant or something like that. So apparently, she was working at a western restaurant and wanted to learn how to make Thai food, but nobody could teach her because everyone had forgotten how to make it. All the pastes and whatnot were made in factories at the time. She actually had to travel all the way to the UK to learn how to make Thai food in a high-class Thai restaurant (David Thompson's Nahm). Then she eventually made her way back to Thailand and opened up Bo.lan, making everything the traditional way from scratch with natural fresh ingredients.

When you see the episode, it's really astonishing. I never would have considered the idea that a professional chef would not be able to find anyone knowledgable about one's own ethnic cuisine in one own's country and would have to travel around the world to learn about one's own ethnic cuisine. REALLY interesting.

Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by nont on Sunday October 24, 2021 @12:28AM (#28974974)
That's because 98% of Thai restaurants in Thailand are not artisanal like Japanese or Italian. Most Thai restaurants there are family style, mass-produced ones. There is no even a formal recipe for a Thai dish. The most popular ones among people are more like taverns than classy restaurants, which are common elsewhere in the world.

The upper class citizens would find Western or Japanese food palatable so the market for really well made Thai food is limited. Because Nahm is owned by a westerner, who really dedicates himself perfecting the traditional Thai recipes (rumors say he went to study the old Thai recipes transcripted on leaf scrolls) is phenomenal. Only the elites of the society would be able to afford to eat there. It was possible for a guy of that profile, but would be really hard for a lay Thai person to have a business like that. To most Thai people, catering to students and the teenagers have proven far more profitable.

Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by PakG1 on Sunday October 24, 2021 @12:35AM (#28975007)
These are all good points. But it's still astonishing to me that she could not find someone INSIDE of Thailand who knew or studied the old Thai recipes. I would have figured there would be SOMEONE. Nobody could recommend anybody to her who would have been able to help her. Mind you, I have no idea how big her social and professional network was at the time, only that she went around asking Thai chefs and found nobody.
Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by nont on Sunday October 24, 2021 @12:44AM (#28975042)
It's really nobody. That's the sad part. Also, like most Asian cultures, some recipes are kept secret and only passed down in the family, if ever at all. Knowledge like this is a competitive advantage, sometimes even in the same family.
Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by zarzavat on Sunday October 24, 2021 @02:28AM (#28975422)
I'm a big fan of David Thompson, but one difference between western food and Thai (and Southeast Asian) food is that western food is more technique based whereas Thai food is more skill based.

A traditional se asian kitchen is a wok and a rice cooker. Most thai dishes use a small number of techniques (curry pastes, deep frying, etc), but there is much skill in what ingredients the cook uses and what proportions. Change a few variables and you have yourself a whole new dish.

Western cooking delights in dishes that are technically unique, for example the dish ravioli refers not to any particular ingredient but to a technique. In this case, recipes are supremely important for preserving dishes.

For Thai food it is hard to reduce the skill and judgement of a cook down to a recipe.

Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by 2muchcoffeeman on Sunday October 24, 2021 @01:07AM (#28975134)
I grew up in SEA and I have dishes that were only shown to me. Not that we still care about secrets or even have any. But that’s what was done so that’s how I learned it. My attempts at writing these down all failed. Never quite right.
Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by DiggyJohnson on Sunday October 24, 2021 @01:41AM (#28975273)
I wonder if telling the story of the recipe, both it’s context, your account of learning it be it as it may, and a description of the experience of preparing the dish itself may be more efficient than writing the recipe down as a series of facts? What do you think?

Really fascinating point that I’ll admit I think is very valuable beyond just the realm of cooking.

Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by 2muchcoffeeman on Sunday October 24, 2021 @08:22AM (#28977239)
I wouldn’t say so. I learned these by watching it get made and helping countless times. There’s nothing hard about them. They could be recipes if a more skilled cook was involved.
Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by jterrys on Sunday October 24, 2021 @12:28AM (#28974970)
To be honest it doesn't really strike me as that surprising. It's a facet of cultural imperialism from prosperous nations protruding into the social strata of the less developed. We all want to try this fancy and exotic brick oven pizza because back home everyone's mom knows how to make Pho. "It's not world class, but why would you want that anyway?" is probably a common thought.
Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by silverpepsi on Sunday October 24, 2021 @03:46AM (#28975708)
Your thought kind of ignores the common case when there may be two classes of food within one society. I once asked a friend to find out from his Japanese coworkers the best place in Tokyo to go to a fancy place for more high end versions of my favorites curry and gyudon. They were a bit baffled, the reason is that these are the "boring" baloney sandwiches everyone makes at home. It is not the focus of chefs who make fancy restaurants.

Speaking of baloney, I was raised on fried baloney sandwiches on Scwables and have never seen those....must be cultural imperialism? Naw. It's not the most compelling example mainly just because US home recipes are dead simple and Pho seems less so. But home food and restaurant suited food are still different.

Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by esyir on Sunday October 24, 2021 @06:10AM (#28976466)
If you're interested in some of the better Japanese curry and other such b-grade gourmet types, feel free to dm me. That particular type of food has been one of my favourites for some time. Not so much on the high end though.
Re:How Thai food took over America (2019) by diveanon on Sunday October 24, 2021 @10:06AM (#28978018)
Bo.lan closed a few months ago due to covid, real shame because it was phenomenal food, used to walk there a couple times a month.