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Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by pdimitar on Friday October 22, 2021 @09:47AM (#28957136)
Yep. My philosophy is to always cooperate (unless they ask for something super egregious) and show myself as friendly. This immediately reduces the alarms in their heads. I even say things like "sure guys, here are my docs, here are the contents of my backpack, hope you catch the guy you are after" and smile.

Very often the mere fact that you are not trouble makes them pay less attention and the whole thing ends really quickly.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by dTal on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:35AM (#28957736)
This isn't some kind of cunning hack, it's literally what they're trying to accomplish by being bullies.

Society needs people to stand up to the police when they exceed their legal remit, or they will continue to exceed it. I won't blame people for choosing personal convenience over the good of society, but we should be clear that that is the choice being made.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by pdimitar on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:42AM (#28957847)
I am 100% clear on it and it's indeed a conscious choice towards the path of the least resistance.

I don't like it anymore than you do, I am simply a realist that I can't change the reality of a lot of cops being bullies.

It's a "partial hack" only insofar as it's making them drop their guard and look to finalize the interaction quicker. I've seen these people's faces up close; they are on the edge and any non-cooperation will push them to physically abuse you or even drag you to the station. So I found a way to make them not think of me as a threat, even if two of the times when it happened I had not a minute to waste.

And sadly, when it comes to "people must stand up", it's never us. Always has to be somebody else. Sigh.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by voakbasda on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:56AM (#28958047)
Standing up to a bully is asking to be punched in the face. Cops can make your life difficult. And they will.
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by ddingus on Friday October 22, 2021 @05:15PM (#28962831)
Agreed.

Having faced potential costs associated with exercising rights, I must say it can go very bad, very quick.

Done right, even when it does go bad, means a likely win in court.

In my case, preventing warrantless home entry involved:

Personal beating, like ouch! People will notice it happened to you type ouch!

An evening in holding.

Long walk home. (I could have gotten a ride, but was a mess mentally and just walked 10 miles.

A few thousand for a defense attorney.

10 court appearances called for at expensive and tiresome times.

Trial.

Tort to recover fees.

Personal unease for about 6 months while it all played out.

Not recommended.

Unless it is worth it. In my case it was more than standing on principle.

Finally, public defenders are not generally what you want in rights violation type scenarios. Be ready to pay up for experienced representation.

Be ready to take the ride, take the beating, pay the money, lose the time.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by ddingus on Friday October 22, 2021 @05:04PM (#28962707)
There is a lot to be said for a little charm and candor.

I do this too, and will flip the switch in a second if it looks like it will go bad.

One other way to improve ones police interactions is to have one go really bad, then win in court.

Happened to me, and I lack time to tell the tale fully.

Basically, I came home to my family all angry. I sent everyone to their rooms, wife included lol, and stepped onto my porch to have a smoke and think it through.

Sidebar: I really miss that, and am a non smoker today.

Three officers walked up and made demands to enter my home, which I denied and they beat my ass and took me to jail. And it was a non trivial beating.

What they expect is for people to plead down, and I took it to trial and was found not guilty.

Ever since, I have great interactions...

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by shwoopdiwoop on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:14AM (#28957440)
This is terrible advice.
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by thehappypm on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:24AM (#28957577)
It is and it isn't, there are circumstances where the best outcome is to be helpful and compliant, and other circumstances where you'll want to protect yourself from search.
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by pdimitar on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:28AM (#28957647)
Absolutely, if I travel with a company laptop and I am asked to unlock it I'll outright refuse and cite that I can and will be sued by my employer if I unlock it, and will direct the airport security to my employer's legal team.

I don't want to open myself up for litigation so I'll definitely put up a fight in this case.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by gkop on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:38AM (#28957775)
Would you say more about your employer suing you if you cave under pressure and unlock the laptop? That sounds to me like your employer is asking a lot of you! Or, if you are bluffing to security about the suing, why are you putting your personal safety on the line to protect your employer?
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by pdimitar on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:47AM (#28957911)
It's a weighing of risks, really. I don't value neither airport security or my employer's secrets as highly as my own safety but will weigh in the risk as the situation develops.

If I am asked to accompany them to the dark room I'll just give up, unlock the laptop, hand it to them and then quietly inform my employer's legal team that a potential security breach has occurred (after I get safely to a hotel).

I really don't want to spend time in jail because of a nervous cop.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by gkop on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:54AM (#28958024)
Very prudent. Thanks.
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by genericuser314 on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:08AM (#28958205)
Anecdotally, I can confirm that my employer requires me to:

1.) Not allow my phone to be unlocked by fingerprint/face.

2.) Not carry USB sticks or similar portable storage devices on my person, to only transport them by courier.

3.) Not unlock my computer for anyone, including the police, unless directed to by our compliance office.

Or it's breach of contract and they can reclaim part of my compensation. I don't work on anything exciting, just Big medical data.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by gkop on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:30AM (#28958470)
Yikes, I hope you are well paid! (Re: 1 and 3. 2 is table stakes in this day and age. In fact re: 2, would you be willing to share a scenario that calls for sneakernet by courier vs a network storage/transfer?)
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by tyler569 on Friday October 22, 2021 @01:16PM (#28959905)
Interesting that your employer would be so zealous about it, my employer's written policy is "Always cooperate with security/customs. If they want your computer unlocked, unlock it. Your safety is more important than our secrets, just call corporate security when you're released."
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by pdimitar on Friday October 22, 2021 @01:27PM (#28960024)
Yeah, they kind of said that too, with the addition of "resist for a bit, don't immediately comply, only back off if there's no choice". But yeah, I get what you're saying. Don't think I'll ever sign such a contract again though.
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by lr4444lr on Friday October 22, 2021 @12:31PM (#28959275)
Your employer has no grounds to sue you with no tangible damages. Unlocking your computer for an airport security meat head isn't gonna compromise your employer's trade secrets.
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by pdimitar on Friday October 22, 2021 @12:43PM (#28959436)
They might have no grounds per se but when they make you sign a contract stating that they do, then they do. I shouldn't have signed it, I know, but I haven't planned on traveling anyway so didn't care at the time.
Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by letitbeirie on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:36AM (#28957752)
Depends on the context.

If you're not on their radar, being polite and forgettable is a great way to stay that way.

If you're already in custody, anything you say while being friendly can and will be used against you in court, so your vocabulary should probably be limited to the word "lawyer."

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by bentcorner on Friday October 22, 2021 @01:38PM (#28960157)
The problem starts when being polite and forgettable puts you on their radar. Police look in your backpack, and hey - it's a bike lock just like the one that was used to assault someone down the block a few minutes ago! You look about the right height. Which direction did you say you were coming from again?

Some situations can be lose-lose. Best you can do is don't talk to the police, and if you absolutely must, say as little as possible and don't lie.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by giantg2 on Friday October 22, 2021 @10:31AM (#28957693)
In some instances maybe, in others it might be good. It can also be a gamble.

If you're afraid for your safety or they are clearly overstepping their bounds, then complying and fighting it in court is basically the only option (even though it's possible you still get screwed). Otherwise, knowing an asserting your rights can be good, but you have to hope the cop isnt unhinged, dirty, or totally incompetent.

Re:Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then t... by polynomial on Friday October 22, 2021 @11:14AM (#28958267)
Are you from Tivoli?