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Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by fennecfoxen on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @04:16PM (#28923195)
> Investment happens anywhere there is a chance of positive return.

I have a home solar-panel system to sell you. It will pay for itself in a mere 25 years. Now, normally, it'd pay for itself in 8 years, but taxes have raised the price. You will surely invest in this system anyway.

Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by coralreef on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @05:55PM (#28924287)
If the alternative energy sources are even more expensive, then yes, it makes complete economic sense for me to invest in this because it yields a positive return.

All you've done with this example is try to say that X is better than (X + tax), failing to identify the actual benefits and tradeoffs derived from the tax. Please at least try to be somewhat intellectually honest.

Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by sanedigital on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @08:52PM (#28925576)
Right, but Homo Economicus doesn't really exist, and just because an action is "rational" from a purely economic standpoint, it doesn't mean that action will be taken by an actual living person. Disincentives sometimes have demotivating factors beyond their purely economic impacts.
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by SantalBlush on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @09:44PM (#28925880)
When people are discussing economics within the framework of economic theory, it's a bit silly to invoke "Homo Economicus doesn't exist" this far down the thread in some apparent attempt to discredit one side.
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by sanedigital on Thursday October 21, 2021 @11:30AM (#28945884)
I disagree, painting policy issues with a simple brush of "calculate X & Y and see which is bigger" completely ignores the behavioural components at play. Homo Economicus might respond to financial incentives as expected, but in the real world they can motivate (or demotivate) in ways that aren't captured in those calculations.
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by coralreef on Thursday October 21, 2021 @01:14PM (#28947695)
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by SantalBlush on Thursday October 21, 2021 @02:41PM (#28949135)
My point is that you seem to be applying your argument selectively. This whole thread is about "Homo Economicus".
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by sanedigital on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @09:55AM (#29000407)
Disagree again, GP's comment was specifically reframing the conversation around an individual's actual ability to respond "rationally" in a real-world situation.
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by asdff on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @02:13AM (#28927341)
I'd honestly be shocked if people with the means and interest to put in a solar panel system would care whether they made their money back in 8 or 25 years.
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by sokoloff on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @04:22AM (#28928140)
Why wouldn’t many of them care? The alternative investment for many people with means is the stock market. If I can make my money back on solar in 8 years, that’s roughly comparable to the long-run stock market returns, so it costs me little to sell $30K in stocks, buy a PV system, and feel like I’m doing something concrete to get cleaner energy.

Cut that return to a third of its previous value and I’ll leave my money in stocks and just buy electricity made from natural gas.

Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by asdff on Thursday October 21, 2021 @02:21PM (#28948785)
Most people don't try and min max every facet of their life. If it eventually returns on their investment relative to dirty energy, they are happy. There's also people who are given the option on their utility bill today to pay extra for renewably sourced energy, and they do it. People put up solar panels in Cleveland where its sunny for 80 days a year, they aren't getting a great ROI but they do it anyhow.
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by actually_a_dog on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @05:07AM (#28928463)
There are non-financial benefits to having solar panels, such as the peace of mind in knowing your home largely runs on clean energy.
Re:Is the world economy entering a wage-price spiral? by sokoloff on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @05:42AM (#28928714)
Agreed (and acknowledged above). I just think there are more people willing/able to pay a full lifecycle net price of $0 for that peace of mind than are willing/able to pay $20K for it.