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Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by DeathArrow on Monday October 18, 2021 @01:21AM (#28902463)
As a former game developer, I don't get why the people start from scratch by developing their own rendering engines or even game engines. Using Unity, Unreal or even Godot is helping you to launch your game 100x faster.

I know it might be fun to develop your own engine but it will take a lot of time and it still won't be as usable as an engine developed by 100x more engineers.

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by kleiba on Monday October 18, 2021 @02:32AM (#28902809)
I know it might be fun to develop your own engine

That's it right there. You can spent years pretending to write a game while optimizing your from-scratch engine for features that probably no-one will ever use [1]. But I think it depends on what your goal is.

If it's a small hobby project, and you enjoy the process of writing your own engine (which, granted, can also be a great learning experience), then why not? You're probably in for the fun anyway.

I know some indie devs who learned the hard way that if your goal is in fact to eventually release a game, doing it without using an existing engine can reaaally drag things out.

I think it's tempting: you can get started on a new "engine" pretty easily, and get something up and running in a day or two. But then comes the long tail of adding all the other stuff, which often isn't so much fun.

A lot of the game development process isn't actually programming, so by writing everything from scratch, a programmer can artificially shift the focus into the direction they're more comfortable with.

[1] https://handmadehero.org/

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by cyber_kinetist on Monday October 18, 2021 @12:06PM (#28907020)
Well, though I’ve also seen people do the same thing inside of existing engines, for example trying to use Unity but become so frustrated with its design so much that they begin to spending their time building their own external systems and tools. It seems more of a mindset problem than what engine you actually use (whether you build your own or not).

If you have some amount of self-discipline and implement your custom engine to be minimal and only tailored to your game (as many indie games have demonstrated), I don’t see how it can’t be done.

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by mbrodersen on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @07:15PM (#28924918)
Unity is used more than any other game engine in the world to release successful commercial games. If you can’t figure out how to use Unity to make commercial games then the problem is you not Unity. I have released commercial games using 3D game engines I wrote from scratch years ago before Unity existed. I would never recommend doing that today when Unity is available and so easy to use compared with having to write everything from scratch.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by kleiba on Monday October 18, 2021 @01:40PM (#28908234)
Of course it can be done. It has been many times.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by meheleventyone on Monday October 18, 2021 @03:13AM (#28902998)
It depends, writing a very targeted engine for your game isn’t necessarily that much slower than using a general purpose engine off the shelf.

The problems usually start when people are more interested in writing the engine than making a game. Then they gravitate towards all sorts of fun technical problems that would be useful in a general purpose engine but not really for their specific set of problems. I’ve also seen this tinkering trap with general purpose engines but quite technical projects.

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by mbrodersen on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @07:20PM (#28924952)
Have you ever written a 3D engine from scratch used for a commercial game that needed to work on Xbox, PlayStation and PC? I have. You clearly haven’t. I would highly recommend using Unity or some other off-the-shelf game engine instead. However I do agree with your next point. People think that the 3D engine is the game. That is 100000% wrong. Top selling games often have unimpressive tech. Amazing “games” that are actually more like tech demos fail to sell.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by meheleventyone on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @07:18AM (#28929339)
Sure if you shift the goal posts by adding more detail to the context then the situation is different. There's a reason the first two words of my reply were "it depends".

Please don't make assumptions about my experience based on that though. It's pretty impolite before I'm even able to respond to the new criteria and makes you look like you're not actually responding in good faith.

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by mbrodersen on Thursday October 21, 2021 @06:24PM (#28951559)
It is quite obvious to me from your comments that you have zero experience writing commercial 3D games. However if I am wrong then you are welcome to elaborate.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by meheleventyone on Friday October 22, 2021 @07:22AM (#28955873)
How about you make your arguments stand for themselves? I have no idea of your experience either but I don't go around insinuating you are useless rather than responding to your points. Instead I clearly lay out why you're wrong and I note you're clearly not actually able to respond to those points. Instead doubling down on baseless accusations.

I'll also direct you towards the HN Guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by mbrodersen on Friday October 22, 2021 @05:34PM (#28963029)
When exactly did I insult you? As far as I know I didn’t. Pointing out that you don’t have the experience to know what you are talking about is not an insult. It’s just a fact. You can choose to make all the mistakes yourself, or be smart and skip years of wasted time by listening to people who have already been there done that. Your choice.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by meheleventyone on Saturday October 23, 2021 @04:51PM (#28972134)
Amazing! Good luck for the future.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by mbrodersen on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:35PM (#28973042)
Thanks! You too :)
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by ari__ on Monday October 18, 2021 @01:51AM (#28902632)
I do game development consulting now and then (speedrun mode, leaderboards, randomizers, supporting infrastructure, etc.) and it's really nice to see Godot mentioned here. I don't often make projects from scratch but it is genuinely a pleasure to use.

In regards to developing your own engine - it's almost never more efficient to do so nowadays, but it is almost always significantly more fun. If the author has enough wealth accumulated to quit their job and work on a passion project full time, I imagine they can afford to do something just for fun as the baseline.

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday October 18, 2021 @07:24AM (#28904305)
For me personally, as a hobbyist game dev, Unity and the like feel like I'm having to relearn how to do something I already know how to do if I just write code instead of relying on someone else's gigantic abstraction. And I also very much like the idea that I can make my small games super small and port them to literally anything without having to hope some third party adds support for it.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by csande17 on Monday October 18, 2021 @01:31AM (#28902516)
There are some great titles where the whole game was built around a unique feature provided by a custom engine. It probably wouldn't have been possible to do "Teardown" in Unity, for example; not without making some serious compromises, at least.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by DeathArrow on Monday October 18, 2021 @11:32AM (#28906503)
I'm curious why do you think it's not possible to make a game like "Teardown" using Unity.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by cyber_kinetist on Monday October 18, 2021 @12:18PM (#28907181)
Maybe it would be feasible now, since Unity introduced the new job system, a scriptable render pipeline, and HPC# (high performance C#) with the Burst compiler. But these features didn't exist when Teardown started development, and right now they still seem to have some warts (the DOTS stack still seems to be a bit unstable and subject to frequent change)
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by flohofwoe on Monday October 18, 2021 @06:21AM (#28903941)
This really depends on the game and your personal goals. Engines like Unity, Unreal or Godot must cover the entire game development landscape, but the 'engine feature slice' needed for one specific game may be so small that such generalist engines don't provide much help or are even actively harmful because they force you into building the game in a certain way. The most useful engine-part in such cases might be the tiny platform abstraction layer to work around driver- and OS-API bugs - but usually this platform abstraction layer can't be used alone, and alternatives like SDL also have accumulated lots of such fixes and workarounds over the decades.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by dgb23 on Monday October 18, 2021 @02:47AM (#28902869)
As with everything it would depend on the type of thing you’re making and whether you rather deal with problems of an existing solution or the ones you imposed yourself.

Even ignoring that. I think there is a more fundamental question here as well. What type of maker do you want to be?

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by mbrodersen on Tuesday October 19, 2021 @07:10PM (#28924881)
100% agree. I don’t know why you were downvoted. I assume that some people hate it when you dare to talk reality. I have run my own successful game biz for 5+ years and have written more than one commercial game engine that was used to release commercial games on consoles and PC. And I 100% agree with you. Unity (for example) will make you at least 10 times more productive than writing a 3D engine from scratch.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by michal-z on Wednesday October 20, 2021 @07:01AM (#28929234)
It depends on many factors. You are describing your experience and then extrapolate for everyone. My game will be pretty small, not fully 3D. I don't need 90% of Unity features and Unity bugs :)

Before making my decision to go with Zig I've built small game in UE5 (https://michalziulek.itch.io/upacman). I've also used UE5 and Unity at AMD. I simply don't like those engines.

Different people have different approaches and mindsets. I'm much faster building my small, minimal codebase that does only what I need. Also, I'm improving my low-level programming skills and experimenting, doing things differently than most people (not using Unity) might lead to very original game.

Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by mbrodersen on Thursday October 21, 2021 @06:29PM (#28951603)
It’s great that you have some experience with commercial game engines. Let me caution you though that successful games are 99% choosing the right gameplay and 1% choosing the tech. In other words, I recommend getting a gameplay prototype working first without thinking tech at all and then picking the right tech for your chosen gameplay. The big mistake that developers always make is to think that the 3D engine is your game. That is false. Take a look at the top selling indie steam games. None of them use unusual/advanced tech.
Re:Zig gamedev project – left my job to build games in Zig lang by michal-z on Friday October 22, 2021 @03:43AM (#28954601)
I'm perfectly aware. I don't want to build advanced tech, it's not my goal. I want to build simple tech that lets me build my gameplay easier than it is in UE5. In my opinion gameplay programming in UE5/Unity isn't nice at all. Way too abstracted and too generic for my usecase.

In my case, simplicity is the key for productivity.