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Re:Quotes from Android partners by pilif on Monday August 15, 2011 @10:07AM (#2886936)
Now we are going to see how non-evil the Google's definition of "do no evil" is going to be. If we take Google's comments about the acquisition at face value, then the people making these quotes are right: This is a good thing as it helps Google a lot in their defense against the patent threats.

On the other hand if "do no evil" means "do no evil as long as it helps our bottom line", then this could very well mean the end of Android's openness. And it doesn't have to be obvious: It could just be that in the future, we'll see cool "Google Android" devices running so-far unreleased OS versions.

"The code will be coming - it's just not quite ready for our partners yet" will be their line.

But the code won't be arriving. Either not until the even newer "Google Android" device is out, or not at all.

We'll see how this will develop.

Personally, I would love to believe Google here because that means that we are going to see awesome pure-google phones which will both be a pleasure to use and well-built hardware-wise, while nobody else will be pissed and will continue to be able to sell their phones - maybe even without paying Microsoft for FAT in the future.

If Google doesn't follow through with their promise, we'll still see awesome devices from them, but the rest of the manufacturers will be stuck with an outdated, possibly not updated any more, version of Android which is a shame because I would really love to see Android on devices that are not pure consumer-phones (like barcode scanners which still run Windows CE or Windows Mobile 6)

The part of Motorola which Google didn't buy, incidentally is a huge producer of these scanners after their acquisition of Symbol Technologies a while back. They continue to produce Windows CE devices to this day.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by mdasen on Monday August 15, 2011 @10:19AM (#2886982)
Google's blog post on it (http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/supercharging-android...) makes bit of a deal of the DOJ defending "open source". However, as we've seen with Android 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2, Google has kept that source for itself and its select partners. Given that, I think your feeling is justified. It might not come to pass and I certainly hope it doesn't come to pass, but it is a worry. Google has already played the "the code will be coming, it just isn't ready yet" card with Honeycomb.
Re:Quotes from Android partners by loganfrederick on Monday August 15, 2011 @12:09PM (#2887457)
I understand your concern, but is Google keeping its most recent code changes private and releasing them in the future really that bad?

For example, John Carmack/id Software don't release their current engines until they've made progress on the next, better version. I don't think many people consider Carmack to be evil or non-altruistic.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by Terretta on Monday August 15, 2011 @12:55PM (#2887658)
I'm not sure "it's open, once it's obsolete" is how the philosophy is intended to work.

Also, Carmack doesn't engage in PR wars about the non-openness of others.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by tom9729 on Monday August 15, 2011 @12:59PM (#2887673)
I think the difference between Carmack and Google is that Carmack writes proprietary software and then releases the source code when it stops selling. Google on the other hand is writing open source software but is choosing to hold back on releasing the source code ... why?
Re:Quotes from Android partners by wtracy on Monday August 15, 2011 @09:24PM (#2889395)
id isn't trying to create a hardware ecosystem.

Google created a hardware ecosystem with a variety of partners. If they start playing favorites with who gets new Android releases, they will undermine that ecosystem.

It's not so much that they're keeping the code closed, it's that they're only releasing the code to a handful of select partners. All the small players get left out in the cold.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by rsynnott on Monday August 15, 2011 @11:09AM (#2887188)
It's actually hard to see how Google _can_ keep a level playing field under these circumstances, short of totally isolating their Motorola unit from long-term Android development.
Re:Quotes from Android partners by ig1 on Monday August 15, 2011 @12:42PM (#2887595)
You realize Google does this a lot already ?

They operate in so many markets they have to have internal chinese walls between departments. The ads team is separated from search team, and the search team is separate from their analytics team. Google knows that these internal teams would have conflicts of interests so it keeps them separate.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by Anti-Ratfish on Monday August 15, 2011 @07:42PM (#2889170)
Why do I get adverts when I search if they are totally separate? It's all connected to the adverts, surely. That's the driving force for the company isn't it?
Re:Quotes from Android partners by ig1 on Tuesday August 16, 2011 @08:24AM (#2890859)
The SERP doesn't take into account advertiser information, so by advertising on Google you can't get a higher "organic" listing. The algorithms aren't allowed to interact, Google Ads team even has their own crawler bot.
Re:Quotes from Android partners by sjs382 on Monday August 15, 2011 @11:22AM (#2887251)
By giving LG, Samsung, HTC the same access as Motorola. They shouldn't be any more isolated than the Android partners, which already have a great deal of access.
Re:Quotes from Android partners by recoiledsnake on Monday August 15, 2011 @12:22PM (#2887515)
What about the other OEMs? There are a LOT of small Android OEMs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Android_devices#O...

You think Google will share future plans etc. with all of those? Might as well broadcast it on Google.com since Apple, MS,HP, RIM, etc. will anyway get wind of it.

Reminds me of the Windows 95 and MS Office fiasco which resulted in Word Perfect suing them.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by sjs382 on Monday August 15, 2011 @12:34PM (#2887563)
They'll likely get the same access they've always had (which for some of them will be zero access).
Re:Quotes from Android partners by recoiledsnake on Monday August 15, 2011 @12:51PM (#2887636)
While at the same time, the Moto Mobility division gets 100% access and a big influence in the direction?
Re:Quotes from Android partners by sjs382 on Monday August 15, 2011 @02:56PM (#2888181)
There are two different issues you're trying to discuss here, and it's getting muddled.

[1] The degree of Motorola's access/influence and the degree of the partners' (HTC/LG/Samsung/Etc) access/influence.

We don't know what will happen, but it's likely that the partners will have the same access and influence to Google/Android that they always did. Google is going to "run Motorola as a separate business".

[2] The non-partners that don't license android still won't have any access/influence.

The fact that non-partners won't gain more access/influence to Google/Android because of the acquisition is a non-story. Also a non-story: pigs wont fly as a result of this acquisition.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by sjs382 on Monday August 15, 2011 @06:27PM (#2888979)
Re:Quotes from Android partners by kragen on Monday August 15, 2011 @07:28PM (#2889133)
The slogan was never "do no evil"; it was "don't be evil", which is a considerably lower bar. "Do no evil" is an anti-Google propaganda slogan invented by Google-haters.

Their interpretation of "Don't be evil" has never prevented them from writing proprietary software.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by tvon on Monday August 15, 2011 @07:41PM (#2889163)
I think you're splitting hairs in the difference between "do no evil" and "don't be evil", and I suspect the altering of the phrase was due to an indifference to your level of specificity before it was due to any sort of anti-Google malice.
Re:Quotes from Android partners by kragen on Tuesday August 16, 2011 @12:39AM (#2889912)
It's not splitting hairs at all. The two represent diametrically opposite degrees of moral achievement.

"Do no evil" is a declaration of hubris or wilful blindness: no moral agent fails to do evil at times. An entity that did no evil would necessarily be incorruptible, immune to dilemmas, and in most ethical systems, omniscient as well.

"Don't be evil" is an almost comically low bar. Almost nobody other than comic-book villains, and perhaps Jeffrey Dahmer and certain pedophile priests, is evil according to the moral code they aspire to live by. The only reason it's even worth mentioning is that Google was born in a world dominated by Microsoft and Doubleclick, which were generally agreed to actually be evil, and Google aspired to do better. "Don't be evil" is satisfied by having the tiniest modicum of ethical achievement.

In short, the distinction between the meanings of the two phrases could hardly be more pronounced.

Anyone who claims that Google aspires to "do no evil" is excluding themselves from any serious discussion.

Re:Quotes from Android partners by kragen on Thursday August 18, 2011 @02:06PM (#2900314)
(Updated and expanded version of this comment at http://lists.canonical.org/pipermail/kragen-tol/2011-August/...)
Re:Quotes from Android partners by barista on Monday August 15, 2011 @09:30PM (#2889410)
It is considered evil to use play of words to twist meaning like that. At least in my books.
Re:Quotes from Android partners by joebadmo on Monday August 15, 2011 @11:47AM (#2887355)
I have the same fears as you, but maybe a little less because I really don't think Google's interested in the hardware business as such. The reason they started down the android road in the first place was so they wouldn't get locked out of the mobile market in the venue they actually care about: search (specifically, search ads). Doing anything "evil" in this case just doesn't seem to jive with their long-term incentive to commoditize mobile software and hardware.
Re:Quotes from Android partners by VladRussian on Monday August 15, 2011 @03:24PM (#2888263)
>their long-term incentive to commoditize mobile software and hardware.

close in-house integration of software and hardware hasn't been known as a way to commoditization

Re:Quotes from Android partners by ConstantineXVI on Monday August 15, 2011 @03:09PM (#2888222)
Your point about the WinCE-based Symbol gear: drop WinCE and they drop all their customers that are unwilling/unable to port their code over to Android.