I always enjoyed the after-work drinking events. Lots of people there that I would never call up and ask "hey want to go to the bar?" but still enjoyed hanging out with. I guess it's not work's job to be your social life, and these after-work events exclude people with families or that don't like alcohol from valuable interactions... but ignoring the global effect, I personally enjoyed them. Now that everyone is remote, they don't happen, and you just have to put "fun" events on the team calendar. That's more fair, and almost as good, but I get why people miss that part of office culture.

Definitely makes sense.

A response I can offer you is this, And it’s loaded with empathy because I def get that people derived real fun from it.

A lot of people attended those after-hour drinks as the semi-mandatory things they are, either for career survival or career acceleration reasons. This was always a large background narrative, and the death of it as of now is a nice thing. I’d take quarterly team dinners and an 30 min zoom with beers any time.

7am-5pm, and the 5-7pm additions to work life on a often weekly basis demands a lot out of people went to them just to manage their career.

What frustrates a lot of people, and generates the tone on HN perhaps, is that this aspect isn’t acknowledged in exchange for “but it was my social life!” Your social life cut into my real non-work social life (or so the comment would go).

I totally understand that. I think we've made the world a little bit more fair for everyone by forcing people to schedule a 30 minute meeting during work hours to just chat or play games or whatever. No screwing up the commute, no forcing people to drink intoxicating substances, etc. Definitely net better.

But, I personally enjoyed people being forced to socialize with me ;)

Respect the candor!

You might be surprised to realize in a few years that they haven't died, you're just excluded from them.

You might not like it, but after work drinking is one of the areas where a lot of the meat of innovation and progression in the company happens.

I think a lot of people who double down on full remote are going to be surprised when they wake up in 5 years and realize they're pretty stagnant and have just become cogs to do the boring work. Which they might be fine with but I'm sure I'll be reading comments from them complaining about how their pay matches that too.

Lol, you'd be surprised to learn I'm not surprised in my expectation that these things will come back.

Referring to their death literally because the bars are closed for the last year and a half, despite the hit to innovation and progression that causes.

And I'll go to them once they're back, see "career progression reasons." The light ire my last comment contains is directed at the people that view these as lightweight friend happy hours, which these events have never been.

Golden rule - if my boss is remote, I'm still ok with remote. That said, your theory takes a hit with a full remote company at the eng and exec level, which many Series B/C/D startups are turning into.

Feel free to downvote me again and laugh but as someone who's office is back in the city. Thing ARE already back to normal, you just have no idea yet as a remote drone.

I'll stop trying to help you and stop giving you cheat codes at this point. In 5 years we'll know who was correct.

I live in a large tech city you’d know, a venture-backed place on lists you’d recognize, and at a career point where I’ve played these cheat-codes already. I stayed in the city for the same reasons you’d advocate for. The offices are 1/4 full, financial districts around it are a ghost town, and companies are shedding real estate. I can’t down vote comments that are direct replies to me. Yeesh.

I did too. But I always felt bad when we made a work decision at the bar and then the folks who didn't come out with us didn't get a say and had an uphill battle if they didn't agree.

Yup. I think that it probably falls on the side of "not good for the company", so it's not necessarily a bad thing that we can't do it anymore.

Honestly, I think we mostly spent our time shit-talking people that weren't there, which isn't super healthy.

> Honestly, I think we mostly spent our time shit-talking people that weren't there, which isn't super healthy.

Honestly, I often feel like that shit-talking helps to keep people bonded over what can be pretty awful situations. I know that in my current job (to which I've given notice), I'd have loved to have a bunch of people from the office to talk to about it, and it might have lead to me staying longer.

Hard to know for sure though.

Not the OP. But some of it also has to do with work life balance. If you dedicate yourself to the startup hustle there’s not really time for bars/clubs/libraries every night of the week. But for some reason staying up late, solving problems, eating with your coworkers, etc feels like a form of socialization. With COVID isolation, it just feels like a solo grind (I suspect this is part of why YC is biased against solo founders).

If you're new to an area, often coworkers will help introduce you to local bars/clubs/libraries/whatever. Not that you might like the same ones, but it does start you with a baseline you can modify, which is valuable.

The workplace is a social hub for many people, although it seems many on HN don't care to socialize at work much.

Sure, but it depends on the company. I've made friends at every place I've worked, some lifelong, and I do miss that, but on the balance, work never really dominated my social life. I always had other friends too.

people also hire those who fit the company culture. It's important if you are to spend the rest of your life in the same room. Better to just hire for skill.