I deleted a tweet in the comment that was an afterthought, not the comment itself. The comment itself still holds true. I am not an anti-vaxxer, and you couldn't have drawn that conclusion if you had actually read the comment. I was simply stating why this happened. I don't like that it's happening anymore than you apparently do, nor did I render any opinion on whether or not I agreed with the pilots and ATCs that are doing this.

Would you please not post flamewar comments to HN, regardless of what other people are doing and/or how wrong they are or you feel they are?

We're trying for a different site here, and feeding the flames is the opposite of it. It just makes things worse.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Note this one: "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." (a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls)

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Where did I say that I was surprised? I knew that most people wouldn't read the comment. Both vaccine zealots and anti-vaxxers tend to fly off the handle after reading a word or two that they disagree with and make the rest up in their head. I didn't make anything up, I was merely posting what someone else said and which is the only reasonable explanation for what is happening.

Since you're deriding mine, you seem to have a better explanation for why a huge part of our transportation infrastructure went dark a day after the Southwest pilot's union went to court to try to stop the vaccine mandate. Would you care to share it? I'm certain we would all love to hear it.

Please stop taking HN threads further into flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I don't have an explanation. I don't have any insights into Southwest's infrastructure and because of that I'm willing to not post any theories - I would be making shit up. Likewise, I wouldn't repost poorly sourced explanations and potentially spread more misinformation. I think all that makes for poor discussion and are the types of comments that would get downvoted.

What studies has he fabricated?

> that vaccine mandates are some global scheme by bill gates.

While they’re all wrong, anti-vaxxers are a whole spectrum. I do think one big of nuance is important here though: there are a lot of strongly pro-vax people, like myself, who are strongly anti-mandate. The choice to take the vaccine is the correct choice. The other choice hurts not only yourself, but others. However there is no circumstance in which I’d support the government requiring a medical procedure to be performed on someone without their consent.

> pro-vax people, like myself, who are strongly anti-mandate

I’m vaccinated, but very uncomfortable with the government ordering me to be.

I want to get a comment in saying i feel the same. Fully vaccinated but fully against vaccination mandates.

The government is not mandating you get vaccinated. Other than in health care, the government is mandating that large enterprises where people work closely with the public or with each other require either vaccination or frequent testing. The same goes for crowded indoor venues: Show proof of vaccination or a recent test.

This is a very lax "mandate." Nobody is going to require vaccination to drive a long-haul truck.

>The government is not mandating you get vaccinated.

So they are conscripting others to mandate you get vaccinated on their behalf. Gee, that sounds an awful lot like they are conscripting companies to be state actors on their behalf. Good luck with any company trying to hide behind that. It hasn't yet sunk into corporate America the liability plank they are about to walk off of but they better wake up fast or it's going to get expensive very quickly.

How many of the thousands of other ways the workplace is regulated for safety amounting to totalitarianism? Nearly all those regulations pertain to low probability events, which you can tell by the relative scarcity of severed limbs and poisonings etc. Why is this different?

How is getting a vaccine shot a "medical procedure"? Very technically it is I guess, but come on.

So you are happy to accept bodily harm to innocent "others" (from your comment) to protect the power to refuse to get a vaccine shot?

>However there is no circumstance in which I’d support the government requiring a medical procedure to be performed on someone without their consent.

You do realize vaccine mandates aren’t new? The chicken pox vaccine has been mandates for all children attending public schools for over 20 years now. It has been enormously successful in eradicated what used to be a very common disease.

Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society

The child vaccine requirement analogy is flawed for at-least 3 reasons

1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can.

2. It only applies if attend a public school, parents can opt out by sending their child to a religious school, private school, or home school.

3. You assume people that oppose government mandates for COVID support government mandates for children. Many of us do not, I think parents should vaccinate their children, I do not believe it is the role of government to mandate that no more than I believe it is the role of government to mandate the COVID vaccination

That is basically what it is comes down to is do you believe the government is your master, your parent, or king. Or do you believe in personal freedom and autonomy

It clear what choice you have made

> Come back to me when you have a mandate for new vaccine with less than a decade safety record required for adults to simply exist in society

For which vaccine was a year's safety record not sufficient to detect side effects? Which one needed a decade to discover side effects?

The anthrax vaccine was one, for example:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2002/11/gao-mili...

No; the side effects of that vaccine did not take a decade to surface. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthrax_vaccine_adsorbed

> Rates of events that resulted in seeking medical advice or taking time off work were 7.9% after the first dose; 5.1% after the second dose; 3.0% after the third dose; and 3.1% after the fourth dose.

A decade of monitoring wasn't necessary to spot them; they were deemed fairly normal, and the vaccination program restarted.

I'm looking for an example of a vaccine where a year is not enough time for side effects to surface, that would justify the claimed need for a ten year study before being mandated.

> Although many individuals have expressed health concerns after receiving anthrax vaccine, a congressionally directed study by the Institute of Medicine (part of the National Academy of Sciences) concluded that this anthrax vaccine is as safe as other vaccines. The Academy considered more than a dozen studies using various scientific designs, and heard personally from many concerned US military service members.

>1. We have all kinds of things we apply to children we do not to adults. They are children after all. For example kids are banned from smoking, but adults can.

So the government is allowed to be "your master, your parent, or king" of children but not for adults? Be consistent.

>2. It only applies if attend a public school, parents can opt out by sending their child to a religious school, private school, or home school.

What's the argument here? If you don't want to get vaxxed, then don't use public resources. Not sure how this is a flawed argument.

>3. You assume people that oppose government mandates for COVID support government mandates for children.

Anyone who is 100% ok with mandating vaccines for children but not for adults is simply not being logically consistent. This is the same "point" as (1).

>do you believe the government is your master, your parent, or king. Or do you believe in personal freedom and autonomy

I'm sorry, you are right. I forgot that America was anarchist state. I hope you will join me in fighting for me rights to operate my vehicle whenever I want. Why should the government tell me I'm not allowed to drive when I've had a couple beers? Is the government my parent? I know I can drive well when drunk and the other guys who have killed others were just idiots. Why does the government infringe on my autonomy to drive by forcing me to get a license? Why do I have to be put into a government database? I paid for my car after all. What's next? Will Biden require me to get a license to operate my toaster?

>>Why should the government tell me I'm not allowed to drive when I've had a couple beers?

You use this also has hyperbolic statement as if there is not arguments to abolish drunk driving laws[1], which often are abused by the police as a pretext for other actions they are barred from performing..

[1]https://reason.com/2010/12/31/abolish-drunk-driving-laws/

>>What's the argument here? If you don't want to get vaxxed, then don't use public resources. Not sure how this is a flawed argument

What are you considering public resources here? I am fine with an employer on their own requiring a mandate as a condition of employment, I am even fine with a business requiring vaccine before they provide services. I am not fine with government requiring these businesses to do this

Do you see the difference? I am not talking about "public resources" I am talking about the government interfering with private business transactions.

>>I'm sorry, you are right. I forgot that America was anarchist state.

Ohh I can only dream of that...

>>What's next? Will Biden require me to get a license to operate my toaster?

I am sure people like you would desire that

> anti-vaxxers have now adopted a near cult-like delusion

I think you’re right, but I also think that anti-anti-vaxxers are at least as cult-like - disparaging Ivermectin as “horse dewormer” is as disconcerting as insisting that their healthy 20-year-old cousins friend dropped dead after getting the vaccine.

I find it hilarious that you are echoing made up statistics about black New Yorkers to claim that I, a black man who grew up in New York, is living in an ivory tower.

Only when black people are tool to prove a political point is when you start caring about healthcare for black New Yorkers.

The stat doesn't seem to be (entirely) made up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/covid-vaccine-bl...

> Young Black New Yorkers are especially reluctant to get vaccinated, even as the Delta variant is rapidly spreading among their ranks. City data shows that only 28 percent of Black New Yorkers ages 18 to 44 years are fully vaccinated, compared with 48 percent of Latino residents and 52 percent of white residents in that age group.

(I do share the skepticism that the stat was brought up out of genuine concern for the health and safety of that population, though.)

That is probably misleading because it only addresses one tiny portion of the tirade the other poster went on.

Are many folks hesitant to get it? Yes. Is it for the reasons mentioned? Who knows.

One thing is clear - lots of people are doing things that are getting them in deep, deep pain because of BS, rumor mongering, and fear. It’s pretty terrible.

Sounds like someone is losing their mind, and it probably has little to do with any facts or what is going on with the vaccine.

Vaccine mandates have existed since shortly after vaccines existed, and for good reason. Because otherwise thousands or millions of people end up dead that didn’t need to, often completely innocent folks who never even had a choice in the matter, and often horribly to boot.

Huge numbers of folks have had these vaccines and the fatality rates and serious hospitalizations have plummeted because of it.

I had the vaccine, everyone I know has had the vaccine - zero serious problems whatsoever. And for me personally, when I had to take care of my 2 year old because he caught covid, so I had a highly infectious toddler screaming in my face for hours sometimes? It probably saved my life. It definitely saved my father in laws life.

It still sucked though.

Read what happened at Nuremberg, the world has been through this before, forcing experimental medical procedures against people's informed consent is not just, fair or anything other than monstrous.

You don't know what saved your life, you're guessing based on propaganda you've been fed. It could be true, but nobody really knows.

Also, adverse reactions to the COVID shots are far more common and more serious than you're willing to admit.

How do you figure this is not informed, not consensual (you can and apparently are opting out), or propaganda - since you know, I’ve actually experienced it, read the material, found the research and actually read it with a cynical eye and found it sufficiently sound to do it.

If you have actual data that adverse reactions are more common, please do share. Having had the worse reaction of the 20+ people I’ve talked to that had it (weakness for a day or two, 103+ fever, brain fog for a week), and being a bit pissed about it, in hindsight it was just because I hadn’t been sick for so long I’d lost all context. That’s literally less bad than getting the flu.

This is what I mean by losing ones mind - there is no rational basis for comparing this to the Nazi’s literally throwing people in prison camps based on their various racist and eugenic minded shitty ideals and experimenting on them randomly until they were dead. Literally zero. But if there is an unresolved anxiety or other issue going on? That makes perfect sense. And if the anxiety is due to not being willing to face something difficult or not being able to address underlying problems - one natural reaction is to pretend the other thing is actually bad, point fingers, etc.

The problem is? That causes more pain later, because this stuff isn’t going away.

I’ve personally had someone in my life have a severe mental health breakdown over their own inability to face a real danger with Covid and prepare for it (instead opting for the comfortable feeling that ‘it couldn’t happen to us’), resulting in their child getting severely hurt - because they didn’t do the basic diligence it would take to prevent it (with Covid), and the problems it has caused, including the guilt that they also can’t face and end up projecting onto others, and the ongoing behavior issues and blowback has ruined their life. It took something that could have been a nothingburger and instead turned it into a traumatic event with consequences that will echo through generations.

Please, seek help. This is a legitimate problem you appear to be having, and avoiding addressing it will only harm you and everyone around you.

You aren't informed because most information is being carefully censored. You can't possibly be scientifically well informed. Censorship of science by definition destroys science, and you're only parroting all the SV-approved narratives.

There are many people have died and had severe reactions to the vaccine shortly after getting them. Look at VAERS, look at claims that even VAERS is greatly under reported. look at how many more people are dying, despite the vaccine. The vast majority of American's have some form of natural immunity. Forced vaccinations or tying them to ones ability to feed their family is unconscionably evil. You'll see in 2022.

If a friend wrote what you just did, to what I did, what would you tell them?

If you're trying to gaslight me, save it.