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Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by mmaunder on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:42PM (#28803947)
The trouble with HAM radio is that it isn't that useful anymore. We have amazing cell coverage, wireless broadband just about everywhere and the ability to socialize online.

Ham used to be incredibly useful for global communications, rural areas with no phone service, and a way for people to stay socially connected in remote (or not remote) locations. This isn't needed in the vast majority of cases now.

That has led to most hams active on the airwaves being an older demographic. And the way they try to recruit others into the hobby is obsolete because the need just isn't there. It's a 100% academic exercise, rather than a way to connect with anyone around the world.

There is a newer aspect to ham which is modern digital radio, but most old timers have no knowledge or interest in that. There's a subculture that exists that does amazing work in that space, but it's disconnected from the old-timers that represent the face of ham radio. You'll find this subculture at DEF CON and similar events.

Even the things about ham that are still useful, like the marine net on 14.3Mhz which we used in the 90s for transoceanic sailing is about to become obsolete with affordable internet in the mid-pacific or mid-atlantic becoming a reality. And polar bases are about to get polar orbit Starlink satellites for broadband.

So the hobby really needs to transform it it's going to survive. But the old guard and new world are so disconnected, destruction and recreation may be a better way to think about it.

My wife and I are both ham Extras and we run a cybersecurity company. She's KF1J and I'm WT1J. We're passionate about the hobby, but both see the writing on the wall. Ham right now is a solution looking for a problem.

73.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:52PM (#28804048)
Do you hike? Even around the most popular areas in the USA (Yosemite, YellowStone, Tahoe, and many other national parks) it's pretty easy to get out of cell range. Similar with major highways, 5 in california is pretty good, but it's easy to not have a signal on 80 or 70 as you cross the country.

I lost my dog and decided to track her, and all the systems I could find (up to $1,000) were either cellular or pretty much line of site. Ham APRS was AMAZINGLY better than anything commercial I could find. It does direct connections for decent range, but also there's surprisingly good APRS coverage using existing repeaters in the areas I hike in. http://aprs.fi allows global tracking if an APRS widget world wide, and trackers that fit in a dog collar are common and don't carry a monthly subscription fee.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by GekkePrutser on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:28PM (#28804375)
I'm a Ham radio operator and when I hike I bring a Garmin InReach Mini. I might bring a portable too but just for fun, not with any expectations in terms of emergencies.

It's a much better tool for the job. And unlike personal locator beacons it can also handle short personal messages. And it's far from $1000 (around $300 and the service from $15 monthly) and really portable. For real emergencies a PLB is arguably better (and doesn't require a paid subscription) but you have to be conscious to activate it. The Garmin can send regular breadcrumbs without triggering an emergency so they will at least know where you were headed. If you are conscious it also allows you to communicate with the rescue operators.

Ham radio is great but not meant to be reliable. It's about experimentation with technology and the sport of making long distance connections. It's not about a reliable rescue service even though it is very useful in emergencies.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @11:23AM (#28840841)
Heh, sure, but are you going to teach your dog how to use the InReach Mini? I had a previous Garmin, worked reasonably ... if there was a cell signal. The battery died, Garmin wouldn't sell me a new one, and the replacement unit increased the monthly cost by 3x.

With APRS I can find my dog, no monthly, and in large outdoor areas APRS has MUCH better coverage than cell.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by mmaunder on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:57PM (#28804110)
I do. And I live on Orcas Island, so lets use that as an example. We have repeaters on Mt Constitution which is 2300 ft. I live right next to it and I'm in shadow for repeater coverage. When we hike the lakes in the area, we also can't see the repeater, or each other thanks to topography. HF gear is too bulky to take with - even the QRP gear, and who has time to throw an antenna over a tree.

Trust me, I want to believe. But the only practical use that my wife (KF1J) and me (WT1J) have for our ham gear is in the rare case where I'm on the boat far away from her and out of cell coverage and need to check in via the HF bands. I'm almost never away from cell coverage. For transoceanic stuff, that is still a common case, but it will soon be better served by portable global internet.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by linsomniac on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:18PM (#28805250)
Yeah, but I hike with people who aren't HAMs. So, a GMRS/FRS set of HT radios is sooooo easy. Even has worked surprisingly well between cars in canyons along I-70 with no line of sight.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:27PM (#28843236)
Heh, try a 2M radio with a mag mount antenna on the roof. Even without repeaters I've been impressed with the range.

The amateur radio tech license is really easy, I'd say about half is common sense along the lines of do no harm, just an evening or two of studying to get enough of the 30 ish multiple choice questions to pass.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by silisili on Friday October 08, 2021 @11:27PM (#28806772)
Can you elaborate on these trackers, how they work, and where to purchase? I've been looking for the past couple years for something like this I think.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @11:29AM (#28840928)
Here's one: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/wmo-picoaprs

You can buy similar in board form, popular among the high altitude balloon communities.

I use one on my dog's collar and my 2m radio will show me an arrow and distance to the dog. As a bonus I can call family/friend and have them check the world wide APRS map to see if the dog has gone near a repeater.

It's also handy to check the weather, there's quite a few weather stations about and in the mountains the local forecast can be unreliable and a weather station that's MUCH closer than the nearest city can provide handy info on quickly changing weather conditions.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by tinus_hn on Saturday October 09, 2021 @06:54AM (#28808714)
Satellite connectivity is probably going to make that problem a thing of the past in the very near future.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by n8cpdx on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:49PM (#28804014)
The one area where it's still relevant is disaster response, but even that is questionable.

Here in Portland, the city puts a lot of effort into emergency preparedness and getting people trained on radio, but the vast majority of people involved are 55+. I have my doubts about how effective it will be in an actual emergency.

I tend to think the effort would be better spent on hardening the existing cell networks, and being ready to deploy public safety LTE, cells-on-wheels or similar. Mass produced consumer tech should enable economies of scale for cell phones that aren't there for ham radios. Full internet isn't actually needed, even just a few independent cells would perform a lot better than the walkie talkies that the CERT teams use.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by mmaunder on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:54PM (#28804064)
Same here in King and Snohomish counties last time I checked. The SAR teams have been using repeaters. I agree re better cell coverage for that use case, which would include data that could make SAR teams way more effective by e.g. tracking search team coverage in real-time on a single view shared by the entire response.

A lot of ham culture is around emergency comms, and every now and then it's useful. But a single portable starlink dish absolutely destroys what ham can do. It would allow for e.g. 50 people on a local wifi network all taking comms requests from people in an impacted area, and sharing the same digital 100Mbps link to get those comms requests out. Can even be self serve. Ham requires an operator occupying dedicated spectrum, serving one customer at a time.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by NovemberWhiskey on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:04PM (#28804182)
>The one area where it's still relevant is disaster response, but even that is questionable.

I mean it's more than questionable, it's tending towards the ridiculous with no well-formed concept of operations. Even in large scale disasters, virtually the only real usage of ham radio has been for 'welfare' traffic ("tell Bob at 212-555-1212 that Alice got out before the fire reached her house").

Cellular providers now have COWs and COLTs for reinforcing networks where the fixed infrastructure has been affected. Iridium phones are easily available. Inmarsat BGAN terminals with high-speed data fit into a messenger bag.

HF radio may be the only game in town if the really-big-one comes (HEMP / similar scenario) but it's just not relevant to either command-and-control or tactical operations in most disaster response scenarios.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Johnny555 on Friday October 08, 2021 @08:59PM (#28806032)
I think you're overestimating the resiliency of cellular networks.

After the Katrina hurricane, the FCC mandated that cell sites have at least 8 hours of backup power (which isn't a lot when power can be out for days or weeks), but the industry sued and got the rule replaced with 'self-regulation', with the predictable result:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/dyv9j7/how-big-telecom-kille...

According to the latest report by the FCC, about 28.1 percent of the cell sites in the area impacted by Ida are offline, leaving hundreds of thousands of customers without service. Another 354,699 residents in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama remain without landline phone, cable, or broadband service.

https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2021/08/31/cell-ser...

The FCC report shows that as of 11 a.m. Monday, 52% of 2,759 cellular sites across 31 Louisiana parishes were offline as a result of Hurricane Ida. The majority of the downed towers — nearly 65% — were offline due to a lack of power, a problem that could persist for weeks in some parts of the state. In some cases, cell sites are down due to multiple issues, such as power outages, damage to the network or damage to the site itself.

CoWs can help in a small disaster or providing service at a shelter, but when thousands of cell sites are offline, there's still going to be a lot of people cut off from communication.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by matt9j on Saturday October 09, 2021 @03:47PM (#28812644)
An important piece of modern (4G/5G) cell network design is that cells can have overlapping coverage to provide extra capacity in an area. The top level statistic that 52% of sites were down does not necessarily mean that 52% of the area was out of coverage at that time. It would be very expensive to heavily reinforce every small cell in every neighborhood for a large scale disaster, but would make sense to reinforce enough macro sites with wide area coverage to maintain low bandwidth emergency communications (voice+text) across the entire region.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Nextgrid on Friday October 08, 2021 @10:44PM (#28806564)
Cellular networks are indeed vulnerable, but he also mentioned satellite phones and BGAN terminals.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Johnny555 on Friday October 08, 2021 @11:24PM (#28806758)
Sure, but $600 sat phones with $100/month (for 60 minutes) plans and $5000 high speed satellite terminals are still out of reach of many people -- the people that can least afford to flee to safety after a disaster. So hams still have a role in coordinating local communication to help communications get outside of the disaster zone.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Nextgrid on Friday October 08, 2021 @11:41PM (#28806849)
> are still out of reach of many people

Is ham radio any better on this front? Equipment is bulky and expensive, often requires a large antenna which might be problematic in apartments, requires specific skill (a satellite phone usually "just works") and requires a license before you can legally transmit (granted, in an emergency nobody cares, but I don't know many people who would be happy to spend money on a setup that they wouldn't even be legally allowed to use).

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:38PM (#28843367)
Sure, hand held radios start at $30 and at $75-$100 can be pretty nice. State wide repeater networks are pretty common, there's pretty nice ones in Colorado and California that I've used, I'm sure there's many others. Sure an external antenna $30-$200 can really help if you are in a car, house, or even an apartment if you have a patio.

So sure you can blow many $1000s on it, but depending on the hardware and demands you can talk to large repeater network for $60 ish on 2M, and with a bit more skill and testing/certification (A general license) talk to people world wide for a few $100.

Here's a quad band radio great for digital modes like js8call to allow keyboard to keyboard chat over long distances for $80: https://qrp-labs.com/qdx.html

Here's a nice programmable 2M radio for $80: https://www.radioddity.com/products/tyt-uv8000e-dual-band-tw...

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Johnny555 on Saturday October 09, 2021 @12:09AM (#28806976)
The point of ham radio in disasters is not for everyone to have a ham radio (that sounds like a disaster itself), but to have hams coordinate and forward communications. So they could, for example, sit at a community shelter and forward welfare messages to someplace that does have a sat phone (or long distance HF link) to send messages out of the area.

Though ham radios are no longer bulky nor expensive - I can hit a repeater 10 miles away from a handheld about as big as half a deck of cards with a 12" antenna.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by azov on Saturday October 09, 2021 @12:13AM (#28807000)
You can talk to your local repeater on a $30 radio that fits in a pocket (and the license is easy to get and super-cheap, like, $15 or so).
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by jjav on Saturday October 09, 2021 @02:07AM (#28807441)
> Cellular providers now have COWs and COLTs for reinforcing networks where the fixed infrastructure has been affected.

Cell phone network is very fragile, it's the first thing to go.

During hurricane Maria, cell covereage was the first thing to die and was out for many weeks (months in some areas).

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by mkr-hn on Saturday October 09, 2021 @08:57AM (#28809465)
This is in the context of coordinating a disaster response. Just because most people couldn't make a call doesn't mean rescue workers didn't have a signal from a mobile cell tower with a satellite link.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:40PM (#28843398)
Sure, rescue workers had some connectivity. But typically in a disaster the rescue workers are overwhelmed and a large part of the community is out of communications. A ham per neighborhood can really help get the word out, even for simple stuff like there will be a water truck at the local highschool tomorrow at 2-4pm.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by na85 on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:38PM (#28805450)
I used to work in SAR. We don't want hams on our networks thanks very much. We have satellite-based phones and data.

Amateur radio in disaster preparedness is a LARP.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by n8cpdx on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:47PM (#28805519)
Are programs to organize volunteers to help with radio communications a bad idea? We have AROs and ARES and it seemed reasonable.

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/pbem/article/563294

https://www.multnomahares.org/

I think the idea is supporting the community in the event of a large scale disaster (specifically the big cascadia subduction zone earthquake).

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by na85 on Friday October 08, 2021 @08:09PM (#28805678)
>Are programs to organize volunteers to help with radio communications a bad idea?

Of course not, but those volunteers have a very limited role to play in disaster response.

I think a lot of these guys fantasize about being the sole link in and out of a stricken community, coordinating helicopter airlifts and stuff. The reality is much more mundane.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Johnny555 on Friday October 08, 2021 @08:46PM (#28805944)
I always assumed that my role as a ham in an disaster would moslty be doing welfare reports (i.e. "tell my mom in Idaho that I'm ok"), and maybe guiding people to local resources like shelters, medical aid, etc. It might be mundane, but that's the kind of things the real first responders aren't going to have time for.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:44PM (#28843453)
Agreed. Not the stuff of action movies, but welfare checks, coordinating with the community what resources are available, where they are, and what times they are available. Think food, water, etc. But if the rescue workers can accommodate helping a smaller percentage of the population hams can help identify folks in dire need.

Digital modes, winmail and similar have been heavily used for getting medication to those in need, mostly because some meds need refrigeration and the power grid doesn't have to be down for long for everything refrigerated to go bad.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by ericcumbee on Friday October 08, 2021 @06:48PM (#28805011)
economies of scale like the little Baefung (spelling) handheld that you can buy on amazon for 30 dollars and you can listen and talk on ham, GMRS, FRS and Marine bands to name a few?
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by n8cpdx on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:39PM (#28805461)
Economies of scale like the dozens of radios that are within feet of my body right now. Economies of scale like smartphones so cheap that almost every single person over the age of 10 has one, including homeless people. Economies of scale like even if my main phone breaks, I can still power on and use the old one in my drawer from 2014, which is just as compatible with LTE as my new one.

Also, economy of scale like a single charging standard (USB) with plentiful cheap battery packs and solar panels; almost all having USB A available to plug into. The baofeng only charges through circular plug and dock; you can only charge if you have a battery pack or power source big enough to do mains-style AC power. Not all radios are like this, but it is extremely common. Best I found affordably is a raddiodity R2 (apparently illegal in USA, oops) walki talkie, which has docks that plug in via USB.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Stratoscope on Friday October 08, 2021 @08:29PM (#28805826)
You can listen to any frequency that the Baofeng can tune in, but you can transmit legally only on the ham bands.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:45PM (#28843461)
Additionally while they work on FRS, they aren't legally licensed to do so.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by TedDoesntTalk on Friday October 08, 2021 @11:29PM (#28806785)
The newer Baofengs exclude GMRS and FRS i thought?
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by 8bitsrule on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:57PM (#28805594)
> isn't that useful anymore

Depends on what 'useful' means. When I got my novice ticket as a teen after learning Morse from a paper-tape machine, it was the start of a long, enjoyable technical learning curve. That's what I talked to other hams about, that's what I read QST for.

I experimented with the bands and propagation (day, night, sunspot), tried different antennas and feedlines, different modes. I listened to the old-timer groups rag-chewing on 80 meters; mostly gear-talk. I listened to the utes to figure out how they worked, what they were for. When I got a computer, I had to learn to use interrupts to do baudot <=> ASCII conversion.

FM, repeaters, DXing, contest country-counting, QRP ... all enjoyable as experiments. Hamming began with experimenters, and will continue with them. Beats watching your favorite films chopped up to sell you shit, or listening to FM-autopatch all afternoon.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by TimTheTinker on Friday October 08, 2021 @06:47PM (#28805000)
FPV RC plane/drone flying is an interesting space in which an amateur radio license is required to be able to transmit at the required power.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by treeman79 on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:41PM (#28805478)
Was at a meeting and people need going on about mobile hams being the only form of communications for a couple of weeks for small towns hit by hurricanes in Florida This was just a few years ago.

Basically a dude in a minivan shows up. Puts up a 50 cable. And he is it.

Lots of stories about how someone needed insulin and he would end up connecting to a random HAm in New York, who would email the right people and a few hours later Insulin arrived.

Mostly it was about how to prep a vehicle to have a weeks water , power and other supplies. Was super cool.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by nerdwaller on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:01PM (#28804144)
GMRS has been growing a good bit, at least in the off-road community. It’s a step up from CB but much less involved than HAM. It’s certainly more limited, but generally more than sufficient for most. Even better, when I go out with my immediate family+ for various outdoor activities they are covered under my license.

I’ll keep my HAM license active, but I rarely use it anymore.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by brightball on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:07PM (#28804210)
IMO having at least a minimum ongoing Ham community is necessary globally as a precaution for society in the event of disasters.

I don’t know how to go about maintaining that group, but it needs to be done. Call it a community service activity if needed.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Johnny555 on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:54PM (#28804066)
You don't need to get too far out into rural areas to find places without "amazing cell coverage", and indeed no cell coverage at all. And anyone that's lived through a disaster (whether hurricane, blizzard, or regional power outage) can tel you that the cell phone network is just not that resilient.

Maybe low earth orbit satellites will make satellite communications ubiquitous through cell phones, but we're not there yet. (The iPhone 13 was rumored to have satellite capability, it did not, but it sounds like it's technologically possible so we could see it in the not too distant future)

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by mmaunder on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:59PM (#28804120)
Side note: We use Hughes Satellite internet when camping in BLM land and it works great. The only down-side is that the dish is almost 1 meter and takes up my entire truck bed. It takes 15 mins to point at the bird, which isn't a biggie. But the propagation delay is a killer. Around 900ms.

Can't wait for RV Starlink!!

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Johnny555 on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:11PM (#28804255)
Yeah, if I spent significant time outside of cell range, I'd probably carry a real satellite phone or maybe one of the satellite communicators that let you send txt messages. Right now I just carry a personal locator beacon in case of emergency.

I've been on the wait list for StarLink for 6 months, like you, I'm still hoping for the RV dish.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by linsomniac on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:25PM (#28805329)
That is true, but I will say that I had surprising amounts of coverage via Verizon ~5 years ago when I was offroading. I'd generally have to be up high, but most of my trails had enough coverage that I could check in with my wife or provide emergency communication within around 10 minutes drive of much of the trails I was on. Google Fi, on the other hand, has dramatically less coverage in those situations.

I ended up getting one of those ReqQLink locator beacons, that has no monthly charge, after my son was running around like crazy during a off roading lunch break, and came too close to cracking his head on a rock.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by jjav on Saturday October 09, 2021 @02:02AM (#28807422)
> You don't need to get too far out into rural areas to find places without "amazing cell coverage", and indeed no cell coverage at all.

Even in Silicon Valley, it doesn't take much distance on a mountain bike to get completely out of any cellphone coverage.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by goodpoint on Saturday October 09, 2021 @06:39AM (#28808641)
> There's a subculture that exists that does amazing work in that space, but it's disconnected from the old-timers that represent the face of ham radio. You'll find this subculture at DEF CON and similar events.

QRP? Things like WSPRnet? Events like https://hamvillage.org/dc28.html ?

(they are using Discord... urgh)

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by resters on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:43PM (#28804486)
that's like saying that surfboards are not useful because we have cruise ships.

Radio is fun and a way to surf the ionosphere!

73

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by gsich on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:54PM (#28804061)
>The trouble with HAM radio is that it isn't that useful anymore. We have amazing cell coverage, wireless broadband just about everywhere and the ability to socialize online.

All insanely prone to failure. Power outage is enough, as cell towers don't have backup or only a very short amount. They also don't work without the backbone infrastructure.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Karrot_Kream on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:46PM (#28804505)
There's plenty of alternatives to amateur bands for backup communications. ZigBee and LoRA networks/repeaters, amateur WiFi in ISM, Starlink, GSM radios, modems over POTS lines, etc. Ham really is a solution looking for a problem. I was very interested in Ham and in college spent some time in the Ham club but even then, before LTE everywhere and smartphones, it was obvious that GSM could eat Ham's lunch. These days with smartphones I don't even bother. I have a GMRS setup I keep at home to tackle some dead spots in our area or to talk to my partner when I'm working in the garage (and as a backup in case of power outages), which works good enough for our purposes.

Ham these days really is a solution looking for a problem. Probably its biggest advantage these days is how easy it is to get cheap, used ham equipment compared to some of the alternatives.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by jjav on Saturday October 09, 2021 @02:01AM (#28807416)
> There's plenty of alternatives to amateur bands for backup communications. ZigBee and LoRA networks/repeaters, amateur WiFi in ISM, Starlink, GSM radios, modems over POTS lines, etc.

In an actualy emergency, there really isn't an alternative. Ham is remarkable in that you can communicate around the world from a 100% self-contained system. You and the other party just need your own equipment and power (generator, etc) and there is no dependency on anything else. Every other solution has multiple (sometimes dozens if not hundreds) of third parties in the dependency chain, if any one of them is down, there's no communication channel.

It doesn't take too much for such emergencies to happen. Hurricane Maria in 2017 knocked out essentially all communications in Puerto Rico for a long time (many months in more remote unreachable areas, a week or more even in the city).

Satellite phones work, if you have one and an active plan. But that's so expensive approximately nobody does. Ham though, works standalone, free.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by mmaunder on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:01PM (#28804140)
Repeaters fail too. And the solar cycle has been at a low for the past few years for HF, but if you can wait until 2025, it's going to be amazing!! ;-)

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/products/solar-cycle-progression

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by ZanyProgrammer on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:26PM (#28805344)
Apologies for such a noob, basic question, but doesn’t Ham radio equipment also rely on the same power that normal personal electronics use? I guess I don’t know why Ham radio is immune from power outages.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Gracana on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:42PM (#28805485)
I think the parent's point is that there's a lot of cellular infrastructure that needs power (and connectivity) for cellular communication to work. Point-to-point radio only needs power at either end, and when your radio runs on 13.8VDC, there are many convenient sources available.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @04:59PM (#28845014)
Sort of. Most ham radio equipment bigger than a handheld (ham's call them HTs) use 12V DC. So in a hurricane you could literally rip a battery out of a car and power your radio for a few hours, maybe even days if you are careful. This leads to wide compatibility for power sources across a large majority of ham radio equipment.

12V DC is easy to build yourself and is a world wide standard for many things, including amateur radio. There's tons of videos on how to build a 12v battery pack out of commodity batteries for whatever chemistry you are interested in, (LIPO, lead acid, and lithium are common).

It's also popular target for portable solar arrays. You could buy something the size of a picnic blanket and rolls up. Add the solar that outputs 12 dc to a build a 12v battery pack (18650s and 21600s are common) and be able to be on the radio for hours a day, even in pretty challenging conditions.

Generally running a ham radio off of whatever you can find around is much easier than normal equipment because most consumer electronics expect AC (which is harder from batteries, requiring an inverter) of a certain voltage (depending on use case and country) or they have a power cube that has a custom voltage and amperage requirements that changes for each piece of consumer equipment.

USB is helping in this area, it's increasingly common and finding battery packs or solar cells that output USB compatible power is getting easier. But even today there's many logistical challenges, things like connectors (Microusb, mini-usb, usb-c), smarts (usb master, usb client, usb2go, etc), power limitations (different cables and power cubes have different max power), physical connector issues (like say Apple's phones), and various non standard additions to get more than 5V @ 1 amp over a "USB" cable. Wireless charging for phones is a morass of compatibility issues and the "USB" supplies for the chargers often use proprietary signaling, and despite the usb connector use non standard protocols and voltages.

USB is generally more fragile and less flexible than 12v DC. It's much easier for instance to run 4 radios off a single 12V supply than it is to run 4 usb devices off a single USB power source. USB is also trickier, you need for instance some smarts to connect a USB device to a car's 12v battery, granted those parts are common.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by ZanyProgrammer on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:40PM (#28805468)
Ham equipment also seems quite large and bulky, based off every stock photo I’ve seen online, so I’m not quite sure how useful it’d be in a situation like an earthquake where you’d have to evacuate a building and take your possessions out by hand.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @05:16PM (#28845195)
Hand hands that are half as tall as your phone and 2-3x as thick are common. As our units designed to be installed in cars. Both can connect direct to other radios (usually on 2M or 70cm bands) or to repeaters (which are quite common).

Having the closest few dozen repeaters programmed in is common, that way you can have a few for the closest dozen or so metro areas and often includes a state wide repeater network. Having access to these networks can provide a wealth of information from a device is easily hand held, can be worn on a belt, and still works even when the cell towers die. As texas learned, even just a cold spell can have significant impact on the power grid, which of course the cellular network depends on.

If you are having severe weather, fire, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc the ham radio networks typically get really active, people working hard to spread useful information. Often have friends/family/connections to local fire fighters, doctors, nurses, etc that have a really good idea of what's actually going on and how the local services are responding to those challenges. Might want to try listening in on a local emergency net (you can listen to amateur radio legally in the USA without a license).

When comparing what the local TV station broadcasts (and sends out over social media) to the local hams, I've found the ham based info to be significantly more accurate and timely. The news station seems to be focusing on the drama of it all.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by gsich on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:50PM (#28805546)
True, but there are portable ones for shorter ranges.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by ZanyProgrammer on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:54PM (#28805573)
I feel like at this point we’re really narrowing down the field of potential people to help out in event of an earthquake.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by tacet on Saturday October 09, 2021 @02:59PM (#28812298)
my radio is about the same size of car radio. in fact it is meant to be mounted in car.

YAESU - FT-857D

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by generalizations on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:00PM (#28804134)
Probably a lot easier to run a starlink node off a car battery than to use HAM radio in those situations.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by mmaunder on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:03PM (#28804170)
Unboxing starlink was a transformative experience for me. It was a weird feeling literally getting internet in a box without cable, copper or DSL or even a rural dish pointed at a local tower where you have to worry about obstacles. I plopped the dish on the dirt and it just frikkin worked. It was at that moment I realized how that technology will absolutely transform global society. I'm from Africa and now do philanthropy in rural areas out there, and it's going to take a minute, but it's going to absolutely transform regions like that.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @05:19PM (#28845211)
Traceroute over starlink, see if you can figure out where your uplink station is, and how far it is from you. From what I can tell the range is much more than cellular, but not all that much as far as worrying about hurricanes, large fires, and major power grid problems.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Friday October 08, 2021 @05:03PM (#28804167)
Seems like there was a failure just recently. Something about Facebook's BGP route?
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by agumonkey on Saturday October 09, 2021 @02:17AM (#28807496)
there's still long distance radio, seeing a random midwest american connecting with a random russian dude up in siberia was mind blowing, SF like IRL
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by na85 on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:35PM (#28805429)
>There's a subculture that exists that does amazing work in that space, but it's disconnected from the old-timers that represent the face of ham radio. You'll find this subculture at DEF CON and similar events.

Is that subculture congregating anywhere on the internet?

I find amateur radio interesting but I have zero interest in rag chewing about the weather or Donald Trump with a bunch of retirees.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by sliken on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @05:20PM (#28845217)
Try any of the digital modes, like say js8call. The newer software and technologies tend to have a younger and more diverse user base.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by tcmart14 on Friday October 08, 2021 @08:14PM (#28805717)
Rag chewing about Donald Trump should be a violation of FCC rules since political discussions are not allowed.
Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by Stratoscope on Friday October 08, 2021 @08:33PM (#28805854)
In the US, that is not true at all. It is perfectly legal to discuss politics. It may be discouraged by other hams though.

And it's particularly discouraged when talking with hams in other countries where the laws may be different.

Re:The Uncertain Future of Ham Radio by na85 on Friday October 08, 2021 @08:24PM (#28805796)
People skirt those rules all the time. Either way the runtime value of $topic was secondary to my point.