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Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by EvanAnderson on Sunday October 03, 2021 @12:17PM (#28738263)
Deepness introduced me to the concept of software archaeology. I won't spoil it, but there's a really fun bit when a character, digging deeply into the bowels of software systems in this far-future human society, makes an observation about the basis for timekeeping in the oldest systems.

The "focused" remind me of the mentats from the Dune universe, but less general purpose-- more like replicating feedback-based control systems. I have a back-of-the-mind worry that our society will end up with a class of citizens working in "focused" roles powering "intelligent" systems.

Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by blincoln on Sunday October 03, 2021 @02:15PM (#28739217)
I also really appreciated the software archaeology, and the projection forward of what were then common ways of communicating on the internet (Usenet, etc.) into the distant future where they might actually make sense again due to the transmission times and bandwidth for interstellar messages.

I definitely recommend both. I didn't realize he'd written a third in the series, but I'll be giving that a look.

Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by bitwize on Sunday October 03, 2021 @01:48PM (#28739001)
There's a meme phrase that applies quite literally to Focus, and has similar implications in the real world to those in the novel. That phrase is "weaponized autism".
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by TeMPOraL on Sunday October 03, 2021 @02:49PM (#28739550)
If we're going in this direction, you might find enjoyable the book Echopraxia (and its predecessor, Blindsight). Without spoiling too much, it features a group of people that pushed their cognitive wetware and hardware to the point they can't even communicate with normal humans anymore.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by scott-smith_us on Sunday October 03, 2021 @05:41PM (#28740752)
I've read Blindsight, but wasn't aware of Echopraxia. I'll look for it.

One common disappointment I have with sci-fi is how often AIs or alien intelligence are so close to human intelligence. In the Star Trek universe, every alien species is essentially humanoid with some added prosthetic and makeup. This is understandable in a weekly TV show with a tight schedule and budget. But I've read lots of books where the aliens or AIs not only act human, they think and reason like humans. What a boring waste!

There was a lot to like about Blindsight, but I particularly appreciated the completely alien life forms and their interpretation of broadcasts coming from Sol.

Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by bitwize on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:29PM (#28741078)
We've observed perhaps the closest thing to alien intelligence in the form of intelligent cephalopods -- like squids, octopuses, and cuttlefish. What surprises me about octopuses is how, despite a brain structure that diverged from our lineage perhaps billions of years ago and is vastly different from ours (they have a small central brain and enormously innervated tentacles each with its own local processing), they manifest what we readily recognize as affection and contempt for their human caretakers. They will nuzzle a favored human with their tentacles, and squirt water at a disliked human through their siphon. They do not need to be trained to do this. Either they are capable of experiencing emotional bonds broadly similar to ours and our terrestrial pets', or they are very, very good at faking it.

I didn't use to think this way, but now if we ever met an alien species, it wouldn't surprise me if we had enough cognitive and emotional common ground to establish meaningful relations provided they are carbon-based lifeforms or analogous.

Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by cybernautique on Sunday October 03, 2021 @10:30PM (#28742383)
I highly recommend the books "Octopus and Squid: the Soft Intelligence" by Jacques Yves-Costeau and "Other Minds: the Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness" by Peter Godfrey-Smith. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Minds:_The_Octopus,_the_...

Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by ethbr0 on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:53PM (#28741235)
In the end, it all comes down to food and comfort.

I can't imagine a life form that won't look fondly upon another life form that helps them get their preferred food, and helps limit or avoid discomfort.

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by ecpottinger on Sunday October 03, 2021 @08:16PM (#28741703)
Remember the story of the goose that laid the golden eggs? That goose was providing but the farmer got greedy. In real life there tons of stories of people being attacked by animals they fed and sheltered for years.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by int_19h on Monday October 04, 2021 @12:36AM (#28743128)
Alan Dean Forrester's book series about the Humanx Commonwealth is an interesting take on the notion of very alien aliens being friendly. To the point where, in that setting, humans have formed a federation with sapient insects, with the two species having colonies on each others' worlds, a shared religion, law enforcement for federal matters, and military.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by TeMPOraL on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:04PM (#28740900)
Echopraxia will not disappoint you, then.

And along the lines of good portrayal of non-human intelligence, I can also recommend Children of Time, and its sequel, Children of Ruin. Both deal with Earth animal species getting uplifted and left to create their own civilizations.

Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by btown on Sunday October 03, 2021 @10:05PM (#28742263)
It's so hard to say more without spoilers, but Deepness plays with this trope in a way that is both satisfying and may actually improve your enjoyment of other sci-fi works!
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by garmaine on Monday October 04, 2021 @05:31AM (#28744746)
Also along similar lines is Alastair Reynolds' Diamond Dogs short story.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by maxerickson on Sunday October 03, 2021 @05:12PM (#28740547)
The character in Blindsight didn't push anything, they lost half their brain to a bioweapon.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by TeMPOraL on Sunday October 03, 2021 @05:24PM (#28740633)
I wasn't talking about the protagonist.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by maxerickson on Sunday October 03, 2021 @05:26PM (#28740642)
Who else doesn't communicate? The vampire isn't a candidate for having done anything to themselves.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by TeMPOraL on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:01PM (#28740868)
Ok, so specifically, I meant the Bicameral Order from Echopraxia.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by hnmullany on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:02PM (#28740879)
The protagonist is a synthesist - whose sole job is to translate the incomprehensible in-language of the augmented scientists to mission control
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by maxerickson on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:37PM (#28741141)
They speak sensible english.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by inkblotuniverse on Sunday October 03, 2021 @09:20PM (#28742031)
It's mentioned that they're actually speaking a creole that's been translated and simplified to english for the (baseline) reader.
Re:A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (1992) by NikolaNovak on Sunday October 03, 2021 @05:13PM (#28740551)
Within that context, The title "Programmer-at-Arms" is the absolutely positively coolest three-word string I've encountered in English Language so far :)