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Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by echelon on Sunday October 03, 2021 @03:07AM (#28735147)
America has a few key industries where we have the lead, but that won't be for long given the pace of China and various other developing economies. Even Europe is growing a tech sector. If we lose the lead in the things we export, what else do we have to sell the world?

Even more of a risk is that we can be strong-armed once we no longer have leverage. This is a reason to onshore critical pieces. And we can't have a fledgling domestic industry be cost competitive without tax and trade incentives.

The trade war needs to be an investment. Otherwise we'll just continue to cede ground.

A trade war might hurt, but an America without exports will hurt worse. As will an America that has to take what's given to it.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by nyokodo on Sunday October 03, 2021 @03:23AM (#28735216)
> If we lose the lead in the things we export, what else do we have to sell the world?

The US is a massive importer and exporter but as a percentage of the US economy it’s relatively small compared to export lead economies like China, Japan, Europe etc. It’s not that being globally competitive isn’t an issue, it’s just not an immediate existential issue for America. Especially as we continue to have the biggest most productive contiguous agricultural region in the world with the cheapest transport and no major security concerns; close to the cheapest oil and nat gas which has lead to the cheapest global production of many industrial inputs. Combined with the global baby bust leading to record rapidly aging population means that the US is on top for some time.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by vasco on Sunday October 03, 2021 @04:12AM (#28735423)
> most productive

Biggest sure, but the most productive is in the Netherlands. And y'all produce huge useless quantities of corn that are killing your population.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by Dah00n on Sunday October 03, 2021 @05:42AM (#28735807)
>it’s just not an immediate existential issue for America

That both depends on how immediate "immediate" is and how the US will react. When CPU/GPUs have nothing made or designed in the US in them any more and the Google/Microsoft/Facebook/Amazons of the world are all non-US and the US is no longer in the top of military and GDP then the US will no longer be in a position to lead anyone anywhere. It might not become a existential problem for the US economy -who knows- but it will most definitely crush any belief in The American Dream or that the US is some kind of world leader. Without a way to steer technology or force other nations to do what it wants by power, in my opinion, the US will go the route of ancient Rome by trying to hold on to what is lost. So maybe not an immediate existential issue but likely an existential threat to the Union nonetheless.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by nyokodo on Sunday October 03, 2021 @01:53PM (#28739048)
> That both depends on how immediate "immediate" is and how the US will react.

Broadly speaking if countries are able to feed their population, keep the lights on, and protect their borders, regardless of access to global markets then they have relatively few existential worries. The USA is one of a few in this category.

> but it will most definitely crush any belief in The American Dream or that the US is some kind of world leader.

The US is currently re-industrializing as globalism is crumbling, so the long term forecast for the American dream is bright. Globalism is crumbling greatly due to the bipartisan sentiment in the USA being not wanting to police, “lead,” the world any longer. The global population will crash in the coming decades, secessionist movements will rise up in many countries, famine, and resource wars will ensue, and the graphs of global development will go south very quickly. All except in the USA and a relatively few other countries which will feel pain but be able to recover relatively easily. The USA has been artificially propping up vast regions of the globe by making global shipping the safest it has ever been in history; that is ending and no one is going to like the result.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by elcritch on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:25AM (#28735999)
The United Kingdom post-WWII would be a much better comparison, since well it's more recent and the UK and USA share more history, culture, and context. I tend to side with the viewpoint that the lessening role of international leadership by the USA is more due to our internal infighting and lack of resolve as a few recent Economist articles suggested. That also fits with the UK's shift in status as an international power post WWII as well. However, even with that type of shift, leadership in tech industries and other fields won't disappear from the US that quickly if at all.
Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by baybal2 on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:01AM (#28735892)
Repeating what I said above, what is a bigger news here is that US continues to be so uncompetitive despite having such enormous advantages.

US is the second biggest manufacturing nation after China, but only on paper because of funny accounting, and statistical standards of America economists.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by nyokodo on Sunday October 03, 2021 @08:21PM (#28741738)
> funny accounting, and statistical standards of America economists.

China beats the US in funny accounting by orders of magnitude!! China’s economy is a massive works program so a large chunk of their manufacturing ends up being trash essentially as there’s no requirement to produce products that people want.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by XorNot on Sunday October 03, 2021 @03:36AM (#28735277)
> but that won't be for long given the pace of China

China is about to run straight into a population wall, and is a kleptocracy that has funded itself off of the economic boom of transitioning from developing to developed economy - but it never developed the type of institutions to limit corruption which are needed to be a rich, developed economy.

Everything you see with censorship and social credit scores is geared towards one thing: pre-oppress the population to try and not be annihilated when the growth rate slows down to the point the trade off in freedoms is not worth it. The move towards a dictatorship is also a problem since dictatorships generally perform extremely badly economically if they're not resource economies that are independent of the treatment and quality of the labor.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by mark_l_watson on Sunday October 03, 2021 @10:36AM (#28737494)
Well, I hope that most people can agree that the USA and China both have huge corruption problems, but in different forms.
Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by baybal2 on Sunday October 03, 2021 @06:36AM (#28736057)
> America has a few key industries where we have the lead,

America has much less key industries than China has. Any discussions about microchips are silly when much bigger elephants in the room are not talked about.

https://www.steel.org/2021/07/steel-imports-up-18-5-year-to-...

America is dangerously dependent on imported steel — all at the same time while having the best iron ore deposits, and coke deposits, and cheap energy.

Now, prepare for a total despair if you haven't seen this graph before:

https://thephillypi.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/162277872...

The situation across dozens more key industries is equally dire.

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by nostrademons on Sunday October 03, 2021 @03:52PM (#28739986)
> America is dangerously dependent on imported steel — all at the same time while having the best iron ore deposits, and coke deposits, and cheap energy.

93% of North American steel produced each year is from recycled products [1], and 98% of products are recycled [2]. There is no reason to use either iron ore or coke for steel production when the vast majority of it is produced in electric arc furnaces from scrap steel. It's better economically and better environmentally.

This is also why Nucor has been eating U.S. Steel's lunch for about 50 years, long before China entered the steelmaking business.

[1] https://cssbi.ca/mid-rise-construction/sustainable-steel

[2] https://www.aisc.org/why-steel/sustainability/

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by baybal2 on Sunday October 03, 2021 @03:55PM (#28740004)
Even Nucor is being very much steamrolled by imports.

Efficiencies of scale achieved by megamills cannot be achieved by small in-situ smelters, simple economics

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by echelon on Sunday October 03, 2021 @11:46AM (#28738056)
Can you enumerate other key industries?

Is there any way we can build them domestically again?

Re:Americans Have No Idea What the Supply Chain Is by baybal2 on Sunday October 03, 2021 @03:11PM (#28739729)
1. Aluminium https://www.ftmmachinery.com/uploads/image/20200526105639_67...

2. Nickel

3. Fertiliser https://static.nationmaster.com/assets/1ccceff/charts/rankin...

4. Non-ferrous alloys

5. Machinery parts, especially consumables like things (i.e. electrodes)

6. Powerplant machinery

7. Electrical distribution equipment, especially transformers

8. Merchant marine (even tiny Greece is ahead of US)

9. Shipbuilding, and naval engineering at large

10. Railways equipment, and vehicles

11. Pharma, with medical consumables, antibiotics, and other essential medicines in particular

12. Heavy industry in general

13. Chromium

14. Manganese

15. Vanadium

16. Chemical catalysts

17. Cobalt