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Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by WaitWaitWha on Thursday September 30, 2021 @02:40PM (#28709602)
That maybe true, but my anecdotal evidence is the opposite.

> cars used to break down much more often and require much more skilled maintenance.

My '78 John Deere 4640 (not a car I give you that) if it breaks down, I can fix it. If I cannot I can order the part. If I cannot, I can have the part made within a week.

None of that is possible with a 2021 6145M. If it breaks, I have to sit and wait for JD to bless me with their part.

I have less problems with non-electronic equipment than with the electronics enhanced ones.

I venture it is very much the same with personal cars.

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by ashtonkem on Thursday September 30, 2021 @04:28PM (#28710937)
Anecdotes are always a mistake in these situations. You might have better luck with your tractor, which isn’t a car, but the average age of cars on America’s roads has been rising for decades. Your experience is, frankly, an outlier.

Also, comparing tractors with cars is an extremely dubious proposition; these are different vehicles with different engineering constraints, uses, and consumer expectations. How many OEMs for cars still make parts for the 1978 vehicles? Hell, what percentage of Americans have the space, knowledge, and interest to build up a garage to service their own vehicles?

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by newsclues on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:34PM (#28711591)
Just wait until the new generation of cars with touchscreens everywhere instead of buttons and knobs for control are old.
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by ashtonkem on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:39PM (#28711654)
Do you have any actual data to back up the idea that touch screen interfaces are inherently short lived?
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by Eduard on Thursday September 30, 2021 @07:04PM (#28712362)
So many smartphones with digitizers having dead zones after just four years....
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by ashtonkem on Thursday September 30, 2021 @07:10PM (#28712403)
Car screens are built to different tolerances than cell phones. In particular they must survive a much more harsh environment than most other consumer electronics. This is precisely why the first Tesla screens were so shocking in their size and so unreliable; when Elon Musk found out that he couldn’t get auto screens that large he demanded they use consumer screens, which yellowed and failed due to the heat cars are exposed to. Car screens and normal screens are not the same, at all.

This situation is exactly the same as the tractor example above. You’re taking a similar but different object built for different use cases and different financial and engineering constraints, and declaring that the outcome of one is predictive of another.

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by newsclues on Friday October 01, 2021 @12:48PM (#28720718)
I’m not referring to the big screens but the replacement of buttons and knobs with multiple small ones.

Like putting touch screens on the steering wheel!

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by ashtonkem on Friday October 01, 2021 @01:36PM (#28721342)
How many vehicles do that though? I can only think of Tesla, and they’re already pretty notoriously unreliable straight from the factory. All of the vehicles I’ve been in, including at trade shows, had physical buttons for most of the vehicle functions, and touch screens for secondary and tertiary operations.
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by newsclues on Friday October 01, 2021 @07:33PM (#28724577)
Ferrari is the only one I can remember but it’s a trend car reviewers have negatively remarked upon
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by nicbou on Saturday October 02, 2021 @04:28AM (#28727013)
Why do you attribute this improvement to computers? There were many parallel improvements in manufacturing that are fairly well documented and taught about.
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by vkou on Thursday September 30, 2021 @03:21PM (#28710217)
> My '78 John Deere 4640 (not a car I give you that) if it breaks down, I can fix it.

That's great, but I don't own a garage, and if my car breaks, it goes to the mechanic. The mechanic needs to eat, and pay the mortgage on her garage, so she will charge $XYZW for repairs.

For all the maintenance and repair work I and my father have had done on our cars, 'Some microchip somewhere crapped out' has never made the list. All the failures have been purely mechanical. Your 70s car proposal solves a problem that few people have, and introduces a lot of new ones.

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by nicbou on Saturday October 02, 2021 @04:29AM (#28727023)
You don't own a garage, so nobody should get to own repairable vehicles?

The problem with fancy electronics is that only a few people chosen, trained and supplied by the manufacturer can work on them. This effectively gives them a monopoly on maintenance. Your mechanic will be cut out of that deal.

This also creates a risk for the second hand market, not just in first world countries, but wherever they inherit cars that don't pass inspection. Some garage in Georgia (the country) won't be kitted out to fix computer issues and keep the car running. They can't expect help from OEM, nor third party replacement parts. It's a great planned obsolescence strategy.

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by markb139 on Thursday September 30, 2021 @02:47PM (#28709710)
Indeed. We have an aging Audi that has adaptive cruise control. Recently the radar unit failed. To get it replaced at a dealer will cost about half of what the car is worth.
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by sigstoat on Thursday September 30, 2021 @02:59PM (#28709896)
what, on an aging audi, _doesn't_ cost half the value of the vehicle to fix?

i've heard the same complaint about basically every part of an audi except the tires.

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by gmac on Thursday September 30, 2021 @04:47PM (#28711115)
Audi seems to be the brand for people who want a VW, but want to pay extra for it. It’s like the mirror image of Skoda or SEAT (VAG’s more ‘budget’ brands).
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by nradov on Thursday September 30, 2021 @03:34PM (#28710359)
This is why it's foolish to purchase a German luxury car, either new or used. The electronics aren't designed to last any longer than the warranty. If you really want to drive one then lease, don't buy.