https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article248169...

This is a straw man of the parent’s position. They say “ blaming it on the "Defund the police" movement is a lazy oversimplification”, not that it had “no effect whatsoever”.

It certainly seems plausible to me that having loads of people — particularly those in lower socio-economic strata - without employment for an extended period of time could certainly contribute to crime rate increases.

There’s no need for straw-manning/hysterics here, we can have a measured conversation or debate.

And given that the murder rate increase was national and not regional, it seems much more likely that it was nationally impacted. Maybe something like a pandemic which led to social stresses, economic stresses, and increases in gun purchases.

Another city in Washington, Spokane, saw about a tripling in homicides in 2020 and there was no "defund the police" movement in that city, no reduction in police force -- and also has a Republican mayor and a generally much more conservative take than Seattle.

You're simply reaching for a narrative rather than looking at the data.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-protests-seat...

[2] https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/FinanceDepartm...

> Over 200 Seattle police officers quit amid nation protests, April 28, 2021

> Police Chief Adrian Diaz said Tuesday that the department is in a “staffing crisis” after more than 180 police officers quit last year and another 66 officers left their jobs so far this year, according to police data. “We are at record lows in the city right now. I have about 1,080 deployable officers. This is the lowest I’ve seen our department,” Diaz told KING-TV.

Why would the city lose 20% of its police force in 2 years? It is a mystery. What we know beyond reasonable doubt:

* The loss in deployable officers is not related to the City Council publicly embracing 'defund the police'.

* The loss in deployable officers has very little to do with the mysterious spike in murders that occurred during the same time period.

Obviously anyone that raises absolutely unfounded concerns around those points is just exhibiting hysteric lazy thinking.

You haven't shown the city council embraced defunding the police either. They cut a fraction of a percent from the police budget last year. Lots of cities had to make cuts to lots of departments. The $5.4 million the article said they fought about this year is under 2%. And it's just what the police spent over budget last year.[1]

[1] https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-p...

You seem determined to ignore that the City Council did embrace 'defund the police', specifically a veto proof majority did vouch to pass a resolution to slash police funding by 50%. They eventually failed to pass it for whatever political reasons, but the intent is plain and clear. As a result police officers are resigning en-mass to distance themselves from the insanity. Perhaps you have an alternate explanation for the police exodus, please do share.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/22/seattle-poli...

Fort Worth increased police funding and had a larger murder rate increase than Seattle.[1] And I don't think Texas had stricter restrictions than Washington. That's just 1 example.

The summer protests kicked off the discussions about defunding police. Murder rates were higher already.[2]

The AP article said city council policies were 1 of 3 reasons Seattle police said they quit. A so called anti police climate in the city was another. Disagreements with department leadership was the last. It's worth noting they're under federal oversight for excessive force since 2012. They seem unwilling to admit they have a problem.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28643574

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/upshot/murders-rising-cri...

To think Bluebeard was rescuing us from the deleterious effects of too much CO2 in the air!

Being from New Orleans, a majority black city, its absolutely crazy to me that this is even a debate.

I think these BLM people seriously believe that police do more harm than good in black communities.

And they think that there's no co-orelation between funding and performance for the police.

> A repeat offender who was released from the King County Jail last weekend after attacking a security guard in Seattle was re-arrested a few hours later for a brutal attack that ended with that victim being hospitalized in intensive care, according to court documents and police.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/assault-suspect-leaves-...

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/abolitionist-candidates-runn...

1) Alternative first responder services, such as mental health experts to deescalate incidents that far too often end in tragedy 2) Invest in preventative measures to ensure communities and society at-large is healthy: provide educational, medical, and economic opportunities to materially improve people's lives

And more generally, police in America are long overdue for major reform. 'Qualified immunity' has let officers use violent and lethal force with impunity. They are supposed to be the trained professionals, yet their bar for use of force is _lower_ than an untrained civilian's. The oversight boards are a joke, with no teeth to actually hold police accountable. It's crazy when you think about all the principles espoused by America re: limited gov't and power to the People yet we have this superset class above the law they are meant to enforce. I expect them to be held to a higher standard, and to actually know the laws and people's rights so as not to infringe on them without consequence.

And from talking with a (civilian) criminologist inside SPD who studies this up close, the mentality of cops is disturbing — very 'us-vs-them' — they aren't 'peace officers' who 'protect and serve', but are above us and demand 'respect' and unquestioning compliance above all else. They're the high school bullies equipped with guns and a badge. Their training by US/Israeli ex-military is disturbing because they react to all of us a potential mortal threats rather than as a member of a common community. There's a reason we had Posse Comitatus, but now we've militarized police at the local level, and surprise — they act like it.

I enthusiastically am voting for NTK in the general. The fact is heavily-funded and well-armed police for decades _has not_ and cannot improve the situation anymore than the military occupation in Afghanistan did. Crime is a symptom of more systemic issues, particularly poverty and loss of faith in public institutions. In short, hopelessness and despair.